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Re: General Discussion

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:17 pm
by civ ollilavad
That's a challenging topic..."
It sure seems that they don't really want to put him back at second and mess up the Jose/Frankie DP combo, which could be baseball's best.
If they knew one way or the other about Brantley, then Kipnis could be moved to LF or traded. But the slow recovery man is making this planning difficult.
Then they also are probably now certain that they consider Yandy a 3B for a pennant contender. Defensively good, but no Gio. Offensively the hardest singles hitter in the sport. If not, they could go little hit-great field with Urshela; or spin Ramirez back to the corner, and there's a spot for Kip at 2nd after all.
With an otherwise set roster and a nearly unanimous pick to return to the playoffs, this bit of uncertainty is kind of unnerving. But in two months it should be ironed out.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:59 pm
by TFIR
civ ollilavad wrote:
That's a challenging topic..."
It sure seems that they don't really want to put him back at second and mess up the Jose/Frankie DP combo, which could be baseball's best.
That's the whole issue. That duo was so good up the middle and add in Zimmer it gave them a premier defense. Oh, and that helps stud pitching staffs like Cleveland's.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:11 pm
by rusty2
I think it has already been settled. Kipnis will not play 2nd.

Only question will be whether he is on the team or not ?

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:37 pm
by TFIR
rusty2 wrote:I think it has already been settled. Kipnis will not play 2nd.

Only question will be whether he is on the team or not ?
I hope you're right rusty but I don't see how they can face Kipnis if he is on the team and tell him he's a backup this year.

I think for sure they are trying their hardest to move him.

Really it's not his fault - Jose Ramirez has just become a top 3 (2?) second baseman in all MLB.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:04 pm
by rusty2
I think Kipnis already knows and has known since the end of last season that he will either be an outfielder, fill in at 2nd and first, fill in at DH or be gone !

Would like to be traded but I am assuming that the Indians have found few takers.....

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:07 pm
by TFIR
rusty2 wrote:I think Kipnis already knows and has known since the end of last season that he will either be an outfielder, fill in at 2nd and first, fill in at DH or be gone !

Would like to be traded but I am assuming that the Indians have found few takers.....
Glut of hitters out on the free agent market still! Even guys like Neil Walker at 2B who teams can get for just $

And Kipnis coming off injury riddled year - bad timing all around

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:06 am
by TFIR
Hey, Hoynsie: It has been rumored that the Indians and Boston talked about a trade that would send Edwin Encarnacion to Boston for outfielder Jackie Bradley Jr. Was there traction to such a trade or was this some sportswriter’s fantasy? – Bob Johnson, East Hartford, Conn.

Hey, Bob: Bob Nightengale of USA Today was the first to write about the potential Encarnacion-Bradley trade. He’s a good reporter and I believe him.

Around the same time, the Indians were talking to free agent outfielder Lorenzo Cain, who eventually signed a five-year deal with Milwaukee worth $80 million. It just seems like there is a piece missing from the conversation. Why would the Indians trade their cleanup hitter after losing Carlos Santana and Jay Bruce to free agency?

Just speculation here, but maybe this was part of a three-team deal between the Tribe, Boston and Milwaukee. There's is no way the Indians would trade a proven run producer such as Encarnacion without getting a lot of offense back.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:19 am
by TFIR
Even though the Celtics have one of the league's worst offenses and are clearly in a pre-All-Star-break rut, the Cavs were able to hold them under the 100-point mark.

This is actually what makes the Celtics so amazing. Losing Gordon Hayward took a huge chunk of their offense away and now Kyrie has all that extra burden.

Yet look at their record. If you watch them ...this team grinds out wins with huge defensive skill and effort and scores just enough.

But I don't believe that will be enough for the playoffs. I am actually somewhat surprised Ainge didn't add a scorer at the deadline.

A real scorer. I do think recently bought out Belinelli might end up there and add a needed 3 point threat though.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:26 am
by TFIR
James doesn't need much help, but he benefits from this style as well. He played the power forward spot on Sunday afternoon, surrounded by shooters. That's what James has always wanted. That's what Altman's protege David Griffin searched for relentlessly. It's always been the best way to maximize James' unique playmaking ability.

Hey rusty - it's not hard to read between these lines and ask ourselves what role Kevin Love now has? Since I do agree Lebron is best at power forward....hmmm

What's your take here? For the first time, for me, I see a path to Love being traded in the offseason. Not just hype, but legit.

Griffin said the NBA has changed again just in the last couple years. (Since they re-signed Love, TT and JR) More athletic. We see that now on the Cavs. Where does Love play if Lebron stays at the 4?

I know they can mix and match this year but for the future it would seem to make sense to move that contract and get athletic matching and younger pieces back.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:28 am
by TFIR
Here's the whole article. Altman's quotes really are quite good.

Cleveland Cavaliers go back to their old, fun bombs-away style

By Chris Fedor, cleveland.com cfedor@cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The stretch immediately after deadline deals is often referred to as a "honeymoon phase," with new energy, enthusiasm and hope sweeping through an organization.

The Detroit Pistons went through it, ripping off five straight wins after trading for Blake Griffin. Now it's the Cleveland Cavaliers' turn.

A team once known for a lack of effort, incessant finger-pointing and frightful defense has won three straight games, including a spirited 22-point blowout victory over the second-seeded Boston Celtics in the official debut of Cleveland's overhauled roster.

The new juju could eventually wear off. After all, the previous version of the Cavs -- a flawed and aged roster -- went through a brilliant stretch too, winning 18 of 19 games. Sure, it coincided with a soft schedule and happened before Isaiah Thomas' debut that threw everything out of whack, but that stint was dotted with chest bumping, sideline celebrations and smiles.

There were no agendas. LeBron James looked happy, even singing in the locker room while getting dressed. Fans were going crazy thinking about the possibilities while the players lavished praise about playing the right way.

That was all before a miserable month of January, which led to the recent shakeup. How quickly we sometimes forget.

On Sunday, there were four new players, and all of them showed why they were trade targets. The youth and athleticism was obvious. But the style might have been most important.

It looked like Cavaliers basketball again, the approach the three-time Eastern Conference champions used during the best stretch of the season.

For years, the Cavs were built to bomb 3-pointers and shred opponents with an excess of offensive weaponry. The spread floor, which allowed playmakers to attack a less-crowded paint, was too much for most teams. The drive-and-kick game started with downhill attackers, rather than hesitant and inefficient drivers. Understanding its own defensive limitations, Cleveland was typically able to outshoot and outscore its mistakes.

Somewhere along the way, in between Kyrie Irving's trade demand and the February trade deadline, the Cavs abandoned -- or lost -- that identity.

They have embraced it once again.

Of the six players sent away by the trade deadline Thursday, Channing Frye was the most prolific range shooter, shooting 33 percent from beyond the arc. Jae Crowder, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, Iman Shumpert and Isaiah Thomas were all below 33 percent this season. Some were underperforming, likely to increase the numbers in the second half. Others were just odd fits.

Those same questions don't seem to exist with the new guys. George Hill entered Sunday's marquee matchup against Boston ranked third in the league in 3-point percentage. He went 2-of-4 against the Celtics. Rodney Hood, hitting a career-best 39 percent while in Utah, was 3-of-6 from beyond the arc. Even Jordan Clarkson, the worst outside shooter of that trio, only missed once on four long-range attempts.

In all, the Cavs were 16-of-30 from 3-point range. James was the offensive maestro, putting the defense in a consistent bind and dishing out 10 assists. He, again, had three other shooters surrounding him at all times and Tristan Thompson setting menacing screens. The ball moved all over the floor, and the Cavs sprinted up and down the floor, outscoring Boston in fast-break points (12-9).

If it looked like the Cavs were having more fun, it's because they probably were. This style of ball has that kind of effect.

It's what general manager Koby Altman envisioned when making the deals Thursday.

"We were sort of 18-1 and free flowing with (Kyle) Korver and Channing and lots of 3-balls were going up and the spacing, that was just fun and that's been Cavaliers basketball for a large portion since I've been here," Altman said. "A lot of it is on me in terms of the roster I constructed originally to start the season. It didn't fit. Maybe I needed to have more spacing and maybe I needed to have more athleticism.

"In this day and age in the NBA -- and gosh has it changed so fast -- you need everyone to be a live body. It's not fun when you're getting beaten down the floor for layups and you're missing a 3-ball and it turns into a layup or you get a turnover and it turns into a layup or a 3. That's demoralizing. That's not fun.

"I needed to put a lot more live bodies out there and be way more active and quicker to the ball and still scoring and hopefully we return to some of that fun."

Shooting 53 percent from 3-point range is unlikely to continue. Clarkson, a career 33 percent long distance shooter, going 3-of-4 is fool's gold. JR Smith has been inconsistent all season so 6-of-7 from the field with a massive dunk is an outlier showing.

But whether shots are dropping or not, it appears the Cavs have finally accepted who they are again, and few teams in the East seem equipped to hang with them on the offensive end.

Defense remains a question. But there were signs there as well.

"Just flying around, helping each other out, it was big," Hood told reporters. "When a guy got beat, a guy came over. We really talked well. As we get to know the terminology, I think that's the biggest thing for me, getting the terminology and everything right, we'll be that much better.

Even though the Celtics have one of the league's worst offenses and are clearly in a pre-All-Star-break rut, the Cavs were able to hold them under the 100-point mark. It's the 13th opponent the Cavs have kept below that number. The Celtics shot just 40.4 percent from the field and 26.3 percent from beyond the arc.

Asking for that performance each game is a bit much. But with an explosive offense, being respectable at the other end might be all that's required to get back to the Finals.

James doesn't need much help, but he benefits from this style as well. He played the power forward spot on Sunday afternoon, surrounded by shooters. That's what James has always wanted. That's what Altman's protege David Griffin searched for relentlessly. It's always been the best way to maximize James' unique playmaking ability.

In the first half, his teammates went 6-of-6 on passes from him. His new teammates -- Hood, Clarkson, Hill and Nance Jr. -- were 4-of-6 on his passes overall.

"I think we're going to get a rejuvenated LeBron James and that's the key," Altman said recently. "This guy is so good he dictates outcomes.

"That was the hardest part for me was seeing him . . . and I don't want to say he didn't believe in this group and want to be careful in saying that because he's going to compete every night and try to get whatever teams he's on to the Finals, but I wanted to see a renewed sense of joy in him and I think he's excited and I can see a renewed sense of excitement and joy in him when he's in the building and we will see that translate to some fun basketball because he's the key.

"He's the guy that is going to take use back to the Promised Land, so you want to put the right pieces around him."

It took a few months, but it appears Altman has done that. The first look was a wild success.

The Cleveland Big Three era is over. But Cavaliers basketball, which never should have changed, appears to be back.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:52 am
by TFIR
I am actually pretty surprised at this one as Hanigan is actually a legit catcher. And the Tribe has 2 already.

Wonder if this is just a deal for Hanigan where he has somewhere to show off in spring training then go elsewhere?

Ryan Hanigan - C - Indians

Indians signed C Ryan Hanigan to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.


He'll earn $1.25 million if he makes the major league roster, according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today. Hanigan, 37, appeared in 36 games with the Rockies last season while batting .267/.324/.347 in 112 plate appearances. There would likely have to be an injury for Hanigan to see time in the majors.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:00 am
by TFIR
Obviously he is 37.

But I suppose it's not far fetched to imagine the Indians trying to get out of the Gomes deal - after all it's obvious to me they like Perez better at this point.

Free up some payroll and use Hanigan as the backup.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:20 am
by civ ollilavad
Since catchers always get hurt, they are probably ready to swap Gomes when the first starting catcher goes down this spring.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:21 pm
by Hillbilly
We lost both our veteran catchers from Columbus team last year. Adam Moore signed with Tampa and we sold Erik Kratz to the Yankees.

Eric Haase showed very good power last year at Akron. He was one of the guys that bought into launch angle, changed his swing, then hit like 25 homers or so. I assume he will start for Columbus this year and they were just looking for another veteran back up/emergency type guy to replace Moore. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Re: General Discussion

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:24 pm
by TFIR
Hillbilly wrote:We lost both our veteran catchers from Columbus team last year. Adam Moore signed with Tampa and we sold Erik Kratz to the Yankees.

Eric Haase showed very good power last year at Akron. He was one of the guys that bought into launch angle, changed his swing, then hit like 25 homers or so. I assume he will start for Columbus this year and they were just looking for another veteran back up/emergency type guy to replace Moore. I wouldn't read too much into it.
I think you are likely right HB but to me he's just a bit overqualified for that. :lol:

Time will tell - probably me wishful thinking. To me, just like the Ramirez/Kipnis situation where they would like to move the Kipnis money - also at catcher they like Perez and would like to move the Gomes money.

There are still a ton of FA bargains out there.