Cleveland Sports Forum

Josh Tomlin (elbow) is done for the season.
Mitch Talbot will rejoin the Indians on Saturday to take over the vacant starting rotation spot. Tomlin's elbow is improving, but the out-of-contention Indians don't want to push it. The 26-year-old right-hander posted a solid 4.25 ERA and 1.08 WHIP across 165 1/3 innings this season.

Source: Nick Camino on Twitter Sep 21 - 5:33 PM

Mitch Talbot - S - Indians
Mitch Talbot is expected to pitch in one half of Saturday's doubleheader against the Twins.
Talbot was designated for assignment at the end of July after posting an ugly 6.33 ERA and 1.80 WHIP in 58 1/3 major league innings. Avoid him for fantasy purposes.

Source: Nick Camino on Twitter Sep 21 - 5:22 P

But....but....but.... Manny Actor said there was nothing wrong with Tomlin.

Made me think that it should be no Actor.

According to Matt Underwood just now, Tomlin is fine, but they don't want to take any chances since they are out of the race now.

Sounds like a disconnect between the guy that writes down your name on the lineup sheet and whoever made the decision to shut him down.

Indians manager Manny Acta said RHP Josh Tomlin(notes), despite throwing well in a simulated game Tuesday, is done for the year. Tomlin, out since Aug. 25 with a strained right elbow, had hoped to start Saturday in a doubleheader against Minnesota. With Cleveland eliminated, Acta said there is no reason to push Tomlin and that RHP Mitch Talbot(notes), recently recalled from Triple-A Columbus, will start. Trainers pronounced Tomlin fit and expect him to be ready to return to the rotation in spring training. … Chicago’s Phil Humber (9-8) will oppose Jeanmar Gomez(notes) (4-2) in a matchup of right-handers in Chicago’s final meeting this year with Cleveland on Thursday. The White Sox lead the series 11-6.

Avoid him [Talbot] for fantasy purposes

For real life purposes, too, I'd suggest

Rosenthal On Moneyball

By Tim Dierkes [September 21 at 1:24pm CST]

Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports spoke to a slew of top executives about Moneyball, with the movie coming out Friday. Here are a few highlights.

Executives Dave Dombrowski (Tigers) and Mark Shapiro (Indians) agree that the stark line drawn by the 2003 book between scouting and statistics is not present today. I've yet to find a baseball executive who doesn't prefer a blend.
Yankees GM Brian Cashman admits that the Red Sox "were having a great deal of success with players of lesser ability," adding, "I studied what they were doing to some degree, adjusted accordingly, brought the Yankees up to speed, brought us into the 21st century."
Shapiro, president of the Indians, expects further dominance of big-market teams in the next five to seven years. He added, "That doesn’t preclude small-market teams from winning. But they’re going to go in and out, go through cycles of winning, then violently remaking their rosters."
Paul DePodesta told Rosenthal he thinks the explosion of information in baseball would have happened without Moneyball, but Cashman and Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. noted that they were pleased to see Oakland's methods revealed in the book.
Braves president John Schuerholz doesn't think so-called Moneyball teams have been successful, saying, "I think everyone looked and I don’t think many considered it a better mousetrap. You look at the won-loss records of the teams that adopted and the teams that didn’t, I don’t think you’ll find much of a difference in the impact."
Brewers GM Doug Melvin is losing some faith, based on "some bad experiences with possible deals that I might have made based off numbers."
Athletics GM Billy Beane believes injuries represent a current opportunity, if a team can create an advantage in prevention and treatment. DePodesta noted that inefficiencies arise every five or six years, when a new collective bargaining agreement is reached.

Cleveland Indians' Jim Thome chased perfection with practice, respect and pride

Published: Friday, September 23, 2011, 4:53 AM Updated: Friday, September 23, 2011, 7:37 AM
By Dennis Manoloff, The Plain Dealer The mighty cut of Jim Thome was a familiar sight for Indians fans for many years and has resulted in more than 600 homers.

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Those who think Jim Thome derived his greatest pleasure in baseball from circling the bases 600-plus times nonstop never will have understood him fully.

Yes, the homers were important. Each and every one. But they did not drive him.

The endless hours in the cages did.

Session after session, often in the dank bowels of venues across the country, when no more than one other person was looking.

In search of the perfect power swing.

Thome knew there is no such thing as the perfect swing, but he lived for the chase.

The results Thome got from the callused hands were not too shabby. He will end his career, perhaps at the end of this season, ranked among the game's greatest sluggers.

The Indians, Thome's team from 1991 to 2002 and again this year, will honor his home-run prowess tonight at Progressive Field.

Thome recently sat down for a chat.
Q: What do 600-plus homers mean to you?
A: Longevity. When you speak of 600, you speak of longevity. It's a long journey to get there, with a lot of ups and downs along the way. There's a sense of accomplishment. The process is so worth it.
Q: In which of your all-time stats do you take the most pride?
A: Honestly, it's not the homers. I would say the on-base percentage before anything else. [Career .403 entering last Tuesday.]
Q: You are known as one of the nicest people in the game, a "Gentleman Jim." Does anything get you angry on a ball field?
A: I don't like when people show up the opponent, or even their teammates. I don't have any tolerance for that. It's about competing and respecting the game.
Q: Back in the day as a member of the Indians, you charged Boston pitcher and former teammate Rheal Cormier in Fenway Park. Is that your only career charge of the mound?
A: Yes. It was a situation where I needed to do it. I got hit, I had to go. I respected what he was doing. I knew him, but when you put on the other uniform, you're competing. It's not about friendship, it's about doing what's best for your team.
Q: I read somewhere that you got in a fight with Chipper Jones in the minors. True?
A: [Laughter] No. No, no, no. Our teams were in a brawl, but, no.
Q: Word association -- Phillies manager Charlie Manuel?
A: Mentor and father.
Q: Former Indians manager Mike Hargrove?
A: A man who commanded respect.
Q: White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen?
A: Entertaining.
Q: Twins manager Ron Gardenhire?
A: [Long pause] I want to make sure I use the right term here, because he's so special. The best word for him is respect. Guys truly respect him and enjoy playing for him.
Q: You and Manuel made quite a baseball pair, beginning with your days in the minors, when he was your manager.
A: For a long time, I think people looked at the outer half of him and didn't give him the credit he was due. But what happened is, he proved over time that he was such a legendary baseball man, and you're seeing it now. The stories from other players, from me, make you realize that Charlie Manuel is one of the greatest baseball men to ever put on a uniform. He's passionate, he's legendary and he cares about the game and his players.
Q: Best baseball advice you ever received?
A: Don't believe the hype.
Q: Where did it come from?
A: My father.
Q: You have said you never would take performance-enhancing drugs for any number of reasons, foremost among them, you couldn't look your dad in the eye. Has Chuck Thome ever asked you if you've been at least tempted to do it?
A: No.
Q: Has the subject of PEDs ever come up between you two?
A: No. Never.
Q: Does it bother you when select critics opine that your accomplishments might be tainted because of the Steroid Era, even while you are clean?
A: I've had to answer these types of questions a lot. Look, I was in a time where steroids happened. There's no denying it. But I don't think you can go through life and worry every day about what other people say or think. You go about your business, you do what you do, you believe in what you believe in. Having said that, I don't see why 600 homers -- or 400 or 500 -- ever need to have an asterisk when you did it the right way.
Q: Are you rankled, though, by the cheaters who muddied the waters for the clean ones?
A: It's not for me to judge people, it's not for me to say this or that. People make decisions and have to live by those decisions. I made my decision to play by the rules and I can feel good about it.
Q: What was the best life lesson your late mother, Joyce, taught you?
A: Be kind.
Q: Is your son, Landon, going to be a ballplayer?
A: I have no clue. I really don't. He's 3 years old.
Q: When you think of Jim Thome, Cleveland Indian, what pops into your head?
A: Great times. Where it all started.
Q: When will you decide whether to play in 2012?
A: At the end of the year, when we get home.
Q: You hear it said often that baseball is a kids' game, that it's fun to play. But there's also an incredible amount of work needed to perform at this level, let alone excel. How much of the game has been work for you, and how much has been fun?
A: Obviously, there's been a lot of work. The bottom line is, you're not going to have fun if you don't put the work in. You're going to struggle in this game, and struggling is not fun, but enjoyment comes from getting out of the struggle. That's where "Don't believe the hype" becomes so important: The best way I know of to deal with the ups and downs is to work hard and stay grounded.
Q: On an average day at the ballpark, at any point in your career, what have been the most enjoyable aspects?
A: Being in the clubhouse with the guys. Talking hitting with your teammates and coaches. The laughter. The dinners on the road.
Q: What is the first lesson you would want a youngster entering the majors to master?
A: Respect the game. You don't need to add anything to that.
Q: When it comes time to retire, have you thought about what comes next?
A: Not really. I know this: I want to be the best father and husband I can be. Baseball has taken me on a great journey, but I look forward to being at home.
Q: What do you want your legacy to be?
A: It's hard for a player to pick his legacy; that's up to others. But I hope I'm remembered, more than anything, as a good teammate, as someone my teammates wanted to play with.
Q: Does one regular-season homer stand out?
A: That's tough. There's been a few. They're all special. I remember some good ones at the old ballpark [Municipal Stadium], when my parents were there. The 500th -- a walk-off. The 600th was great. The 511-footer against Kansas City at Jacobs Field. The flagpole in Minnesota. The Skydome crouton.
Q: The Skydome crouton?
A: You know, the one in the old Skydome in Toronto. I was with the Indians.
Q: What happened?
A: [Laughter] The ball went into the restaurant and landed on the croutons of a salad. That's what they told me.
Q: Describe the feeling of hitting a walk-off homer, which you've done 12 times.
A: It's indescribable. That's the ultimate in a regular-season game -- to hit a home run and win a game. To have your teammates waiting on you. It really doesn't get any better than that. And you can't script it, you can't try to do it. You have a good at-bat, and if it happens, it happens.
Q: You've always talked about the ultimate goal -- to win a World Series ring. It has not happened. How do you summarize that void?
A: I won't look at my career and say, "If I don't win a World Series, it hasn't been complete." Man, I've been given so much. The game has given me so much, so many opportunities. I've been very fortunate. So there's no regret about not winning a ring. Do you understand that?
Q: Yes.
A: Would I love to do it? Absolutely. If it never happens, it would still eat at me every day. I've been close, and I can't imagine what it would be like to actually get there. But again, it's not regret as much as it is disappointment.
Q: Who joins you at your dream power hitters' roundtable?
A: Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle. It would be pretty cool to talk hitting with those guys, wouldn't it?
Q: What is the highlight of your career? One snapshot that continues to give you goosebumps?
A: No question: Catching the ball at third base for the last out against the Orioles to clinch the division in 1995. It's my favorite because of what it meant to the city.
Q: Why did you wear No. 25 for all these years?
A: It was my grandfather's number, a family number. But I only wore it in Cleveland after Buddy Bell left. In my mind, that was Buddy Bell's number in Cleveland.
Q: According to baseball-reference.com, the only other number you've worn is No. 6, when you broke in.
A: And No. 59.
Q: Fifty-nine? You wore that number in your first spring training?
A: No, no -- that was my number when I debuted. I got my first hit as No. 59. Can you believe that? I was No. 59. I made my debut on the road and got my first hit. Then when we came back to Cleveland from that trip, No. 6 was available. It was a smaller number, so I took it.
Q: Do you realize that, in 1996, you led the Indians with five triples?
A: Wow. That's awesome. That's a good trivia question.
Q: Even more amazing: Kenny Lofton was among those on that team. You broke his four-year run as triples leader.
A: [Laughter] I'll have to harass him over that one.


Jim Thome at a glance
• Eighth in MLB history in homers (603).
• Eighth in MLB history in walks (1,722).
• 26th in MLB history in RBI (1,670).
• Indians' all-time leader in homers (336) and walks (1,005) and second in RBI (933).
• Indians' single-season leader with 52 homers in 2002.
• 187 career homers at Progressive Field.
• 672 total homers as a professional (52 in minors, 603 MLB regular season, 17 MLB postseason)
• Hit 511-foot homer on July 3, 1999, against Kansas City at Progressive Field -- longest measured homer by an Indian in Cleveland.
• Served three-game suspension, May 5-7, 1999, for charging Boston's Rheal Cormier at Fenway Park on April 23.
• Had six straight seasons of 100-plus walks and 100-plus RBI (1999-2004).
• Homered in Indians record seven straight games, June 25-July 3, 2002.
• Reached base safely in his final 55 games of 2002 season.
• Hit 11 homers off Twins in 2002, including seven off Rick Reed.
• Had nine straight seasons of 30-plus homers (1996-2004).

CLEVELAND: Because I’ve been in the press box for almost every Indians game the past 31 years, I haven’t heard a lot of what Mike Hegan has had to say as Tom Hamilton’s partner for 14 seasons on the team’s radio network.

But I’ve heard enough to know that the Tribe will have a difficult time replacing him. As Hamilton was telling me the other day, “There aren’t many ex-players on the air who can do play-by-play. Mike is one of them.”

In the industry, “real” broadcasters are play-by-play guys. That’s what makes Hegan a pro.

He was always more than a former jock who thought sitting in front of a microphone was an easy way to make money. It’s not, and players who don’t take the job seriously come and go faster than ESPN changes anchors on SportsCenter.

Jerry Coleman, who played baseball for a living and had a marathon broadcasting career with the New York Yankees and San Diego Padres, told Hegan decades ago that he should learn to do play-by-play if he intended to hold onto his job. Even before he retired as a player, Hegan spent offseasons as a sports anchor in Milwaukee. When he was through as a player, he went into the booth as the Brewers’ color commentator.

He came back to his hometown 23 years ago and worked the television side with Indians voice Jack Corrigan, before teaming with Hamilton. He announced last week that he is getting away from the booth at season’s end.

What separates Hegan from others who do color commentary? He has a unique way of discussing the game. He doesn’t talk down to his audience, and he doesn’t overwhelm listeners with volumes of jargon. When he explains why a right-handed pitcher needs to throw a change-up to a left-handed batter, the guy on the turnpike driving to Toledo gets it.

Many former big-leaguers can’t find it within themselves to criticize players because that’s what they used to be. Hegan will point out faults but never in a mean-spirited way.

He and Hamilton developed into a good team, and it’s not easy to pair up two disparate personalities and make it work. Monday Night Football has never recaptured the chemistry in the booth of the Don Meredith, Frank Gifford and Howard Cosell era.

So for me, the Indians have a problem. It’s my understanding they will look for a former player to take Hegan’s place. Ideally, the new man will have a connection with the Tribe or at least Northeast Ohio, already have experience in the sportscasting biz and be as easy to listen to as Mike Hegan.

Good luck with that.

Smart move

Are the Indians that smart?

General Manager Chris Antonetti’s most productive move of the season was acquiring Jim Thome from the Minnesota Twins for $20,000. How so?

Thome has been on the club less than a month. He arrived when the Tribe was fading fast and grasping at straws to remain in the American League Central Division race. Even if Thome had played in every game after his arrival in Cleveland and still been in the most productive phase of his career, he could not have lifted the team on his broad shoulders and barged past the Detroit Tigers into the division lead.

But Thome hasn’t played in every game. He no longer is in his prime. Through the series finale Thursday with the Chicago White Sox, he had played in 17 games and hit two home runs.

Nevertheless, Thome has made an impact. Fact is, he ranks among the Indians’ most significant contributors of the year. How can that be? It’s the money, stupid.

Just when attendance was flagging because of the club’s slide into deep second place and the onset of the school year, Thome showed up to revive interest. His first game created a traffic jam at Progressive Field’s turnstiles. Fans continued to come out to see him for the next few games.

It didn’t take long for the marketing operatives to catch on (who knows, maybe they lobbied with the baseball people to bring him onboard). A promotion to honor Thome for hitting his 600th career home run (not with the Tribe, mind you, but with the Twins) was organized.

The event was staged Friday night and drew close to a sellout crowd. Indians fans love Jim Thome. And why not? He is a sure-fire hall of famer, and if baseball operated a hall of fame for players of good character, Thome would be a first-ballot inductee there, too. There wouldn’t have to be a vote. Just invite Commissioner Bud Selig to read the proclamation.

Thome is a no-steroids, no-pretense, no-bull kind of guy. Nothing is fake, nothing is phony.

He was a 13th-round draft choice who learned to be one of baseball’s all-time great sluggers and became the poster boy for the idea that a dedicated kid who works hard and picks the right mentors can succeed beyond his wildest dreams.

How popular is he? When Thome returned to Minneapolis for a three-game series in mid-September, he triggered a standing ovation by hitting a home run that helped the Twins lose the game.

Keep in mind the Indians didn’t give up any players to bring Thome back. They paid what remained of Thome’s salary, about $550,000, and Larry Dolan skimmed the cash register for 20 grand to pay the Twins. Deals don’t get much better than that.

The most recent gold standard deal for the Tribe was obtaining Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips for Bartolo Colon. To be sure, a great trade, but just think how many dollars they’ve spent on MRIs for Sizemore, alone.

How much cash have the Indians made from Thome‘s return? Hard to say, because so many tickets have been discounted this year. But he probably is responsible for attracting 80,000 fans all by himself. And of course, those fans bought beer and hot dogs, jerseys and caps.

It would have been difficult for manager Manny Acta to find a role for Thome, but just think about his potential impact on the bottom line had he been here the entire season with 600 home runs in his sights. Or how about this for a novel idea: What if the Indians had paid the price to keep him from going to the Phillies in 2003?

OK, so they weren’t that smart.

Thome is a no-steroids, no-pretense, no-bull kind of guy. Nothing is fake, nothing is phony.

Remember when they said that about Palmeiro and Clemens. What bullshit !

Remember when Paul Byrd was too religious to take PEDs ?

Remember when Lance Armstrong said the same ?

So let's get this straight. Thome is the first player to hit 600 home runs in how many years that was actually clean ? How naive are baseball fans or writers ?

rusty2 wrote:Thome is a no-steroids, no-pretense, no-bull kind of guy. Nothing is fake, nothing is phony.

Remember when they said that about Palmeiro and Clemens. What bullshit !

Remember when Paul Byrd was too religious to take PEDs ?

Remember when Lance Armstrong said the same ?

So let's get this straight. Thome is the first player to hit 600 home runs in how many years that was actually clean ? How naive are baseball fans or writers ?

Great points Rusty, and you are dead on in your message. But at this stage of my life of Cleveland Indians Fandom and general baseball fandom in these days of baseball I'm trying to focus on the positive.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Grady Sizemore's last at-bat of the season ended with an RBI single in the seventh inning Thursday in an 11-2 victory over Chicago. It could have been his last at-bat as an Indian.

Sizemore has been shut down because of pain in his right knee, the same one that put him on the disabled list earlier this season.

"There's no need for Grady to play," said manager Manny Acta. "The knee is not 100 percent. It's still an issue for him."

GM Chris Antonetti says the team is trying to be cautious. Sizemore's knee will be re-examined when the season ends to determine if surgery is needed.

In the off-season, the Indians must decide whether they're going to exercise Sizemore's $9 million club option for 2012 or let him become a free agent. Sizemore, on the disabled list three times this year, has missed big chunks of the last three years with injuries.

He ends this season hitting .224 (60-for-266) with 21 doubles, one triple, 10 homers and 32 RBI in 71 games. He struck out 85 times and walked 18. Since coming off the disabled list on Sept. 5, Sizemore is hitting .139 (5-for-36) with three RBI and 10 strikeouts.

The Indians also lost outfielder Trevor Crowe for the remainder of the season with a strained left shoulder. He was injured diving for a ball Saturday in the first game of a doubleheader against the Twins. Jerad Head's contract was purchased from Class AAA Columbus on Sunday. It's Head's second tour this month with the Tribe.

Two for one: Rookie relievers Zach Putnam and Nick Hagadone got their first big-league wins Saturday in the Tribe's doubleheader sweep. Putnam won the first game and Hagadone the second.

In the last 50 years, according to Elias, such a scenario has occurred twice. The first time was Aug. 24, 2004 when Seattle rookies Matt Thornton and Cha-Seung Baek won both ends of a doubleheader against Kansas City. The second time was Saturday.

Putnam relieved David Huff in the sixth with the score tied at 2 with two out and a man on second. Putnam struck out Joe Benson to end the inning. The Indians made Putnam a winner by scoring six runs in their half of the sixth on the way to an 8-2 win.

"It was a surreal appearance for me," said Putnam, promoted on Sept. 13 from Class AAA Columbus. "I'm happy and honored that Manny would put me in a spot like that."

Acta hasn't been shy about putting Putnam (1-1, 6.35) in tight spots.

"I love it," said Putnam. "Those are the spots I want to be pitching in over the course of my career." The Indians gave Putnam the lineup card and the ball on which the final out was made.

Hagadone (1-0, 4.82) relieved Josh Judy in the seventh inning of the nightcap with the Indians trailing, 6-5. He pitched a scoreless seventh and watched the offense score two runs in the seventh on the way to a 7-6 victory.

"That's a credit to the offense," said Hagadone, recalled on Sept. 1. "We were down, 6-0, in that game and they came back and scored seven runs."

Hagadone was given a lineup card and some game balls. "I'm going to keep them forever," he said.

Move the needle: As the Indians have gone from 69 wins last year to 80, closer Chris Perez gone from 23 saves to 36. He's been especially effective in tight situations, converting 19 of 22 one-run save situations.

"I think my stuff plays better in a close game," said Perez. "My stuff is moving all over the place. Hitters are trying to look for that one meatball to tie it up and I probably get some swings that I wouldn't if it was a three-run game and the hitters are in take mode."

Finally: Jason Donald went 2-for-3 in Sunday's 6-4 loss. He's hitting .363 (33-for-91) in his last 24 games.

"I think my stuff plays better in a close game," said Perez. "My stuff is moving all over the place. Hitters are trying to look for that one meatball to tie it up and I probably get some swings that I wouldn't if it was a three-run game and the hitters are in take mode."

Wow ! What a terrible excuse for a lack of control.

rusty2 wrote:Thome is a no-steroids, no-pretense, no-bull kind of guy. Nothing is fake, nothing is phony.

Remember when they said that about Palmeiro and Clemens. What bullshit !

Remember when Paul Byrd was too religious to take PEDs ?

Remember when Lance Armstrong said the same ?

So let's get this straight. Thome is the first player to hit 600 home runs in how many years that was actually clean ? How naive are baseball fans or writers ?

Rusty welcome to the antidolanite faction. We are a big tent group.