Cleveland Sports Forum

but the team must still carry 26 major leaguers, plus some major-league-ready reinforcements, on that 40-man roster, so the list can’t be full of players yet to escape A-ball.

I guess he's just being clever or snide since he knows that:
They can add depth in spring training from minor league free agents of the Harold Ramirez variety
Valera Rocchio Freeman are beyond A ball. As are Oscar Gonzalez Steven Kwan and Cody Morris who all debuted in AAA and need protection.
the only A ball guys who may need protection are Jose Tena and Jhonkensy Noel who happened to win mlb.com's MVP for his play .

Ray Fosse, former Cleveland Indians All-Star catcher and A’s broadcaster, dead at 74

By Joe Noga, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Ray Fosse, a two-time All-Star catcher for the Cleveland Indians who went on to have a long career as a beloved broadcaster for the Oakland Athletics, passed away Wednesday at age 74, the clubs confirmed.

Fosse’s wife, Carol, said in a statement online that he had fought cancer for 16 years.

Cleveland’s Senior Vice President of Public Affairs, Bob DiBiasio, called Fosse, the club’s top draft pick in 1965, a fan favorite who spent nearly 60 years in the game he loved.

“Ray was so proud to have worn an Indians uniform,” DiBiasio posted on Twitter. “One of the highlights of every summer was when Ray would come to town to broadcast Oakland A’s games. He will be missed.”

Fosse played eight seasons in Cleveland collecting 50 home runs, 230 RBI and 549 hits and earning selections to the Midsummer Classic and Gold Glove Awards in both 1970 and 1971. It was in the 12th inning of the 1970 All-Star game when Pete Rose famously collided with Fosse at home, fracturing his shoulder.

Cleveland traded Fosse to Oakland in 1973 where he won two World Series championships with the A’s before rejoining the Indians in 1976. He went on to make stops in Seattle and Milwaukee before retiring after the 1979 season. In 1986, Fosse joined the Athletics broadcast team where he remained for 35 seasons, stepping away in the middle of 2021.

In a statement, the A’s said few people epitomized what it meant to be an Athletic more than Fosse.

“He was the type of franchise icon who always made sure every player, coach, colleague, and fan knew that they were part of the Oakland A’s family.’’

Fosse also remained one of Cleveland’s most beloved personalities by fans both young and old. With Oakland playing a 2004 series at the ballpark now known as Progressive Field, Fosse found himself walking around downtown on a Saturday. He bumped into a Cleveland police officer who exclaimed: “You’re Ray Fosse. I watched you play at the old Stadium.”

Fosse’s wry reply: “You must have been 2 years old.”

His first visit to the new park in 1994 also marked the 17th anniversary of Dennis Eckersley’s no-hitter for Cleveland in 1977. Fosse was behind the plate to catch Eckersley that night as the Indians beat Frank Tanana and the Angels, 1-0.

”Wherever I put up the glove, he hit it,” Fosse told The Plain Dealer. “He had excellent control. Early on I had a feeling it was going to happen. His stuff was that good.”

In July 2001, the Indians named Fosse one of the franchise’s top 100 Greatest Players. During an on-field ceremony to honor all of the living members of that top 100 list Fosse was like a kid in a candy store. He exchanged a few laughs with franchise icon Rocky Colavito about their graying hair, and marveled at how many of his childhood heroes were present wearing Indians uniforms.

”I always collected baseball cards,” Fosse told The Plain Dealer that day. “I have Al Rosen’s card, probably the cards of all the guys in here. I started collecting cards in the ‘50s.”

In 1999, Fosse told The Plain Dealer that his favorite memory of playing in Cleveland was the first half of the 1970 season.

“It was magical,” Fosse said. “The fans were great. ... I never wanted to be traded. I always liked it here.”

Rocky adds- Back in the day before Pete Rose, I was fortunate enough to attend a Tribe luncheon during
which one player was seated at each table. I got Fosse. He engaged in lively conversation throughout
the event . He had a good sense of humor and told funny 'g; rated baseball stories.

Safe trails to him.

I hope all of you are well. Good luck to us all.

Somehow I have gotten to be an old fogie. I still say record instead of vinyl.

Go Guardians!

One industry source suggested teams might be hesitant to commit to any major moves until a new collective bargaining agreement is completed. That looming cumulonimbus, coupled with the team’s 40-man roster crunch, could make the next few months especially challenging to navigate in Cleveland. (More on those topics in a moment.)

Had to look that one up.

he could have said cloud if he didn't want to impress us

Cleveland Guardians: 1 trade we’re glad didn’t happen at the trade deadline
by Kyle Edmond 22 hours ago Follow @kyleedmond7



Cleveland Guardians, Jose Ramirez


The Cleveland Guardians organization is no stranger to trade deadline deals. Whether it be adding pieces like Brad Hand or moving players like Mike Clevinger, Cleveland has always found a way to be active at the deadline. Despite a down season, 2021 proved to be no different as Cleveland’s front office sold talent like Eddie Rosario while buying future assets like Myles Straw. However, there’s one deal that didn’t happen, thankfully.

Every team has to make difficult decisions at the deadline and some are accepted by fans better than others. One move that most likely would have shook Cleveland’s fan base to its core would have been trading Jose Ramirez at the deadline.

Trading Francisco Lindor was expected. He was going to outprice himself in Cleveland. However, Ramirez has a team-friendly contract, is a fan favorite and is the best player on the roster. Yet, the front office was still fielding calls for the All-Star third baseman.

In a recent article, Shi Davidi, who covers the Toronto Blue Jays, reported that former Cleveland front office leader Mark Shapiro and company called up his old team to try and make a deal for Ramirez. The Blue Jays were very active at the deadline, adding Jose Berrios and Brad Hand among others. One player they weren’t able to land was Ramirez.

Davidi kind of glossed over the point, mentioning it and moving on, so the deep details weren’t included. However, it’s hard to imagine the type of package that the Blue Jays would have been able to piece together to draw interest from Cleveland.

Moving into 2022, the Cleveland Guardians are far from set, but there’s a plethora of talent at the positions of need. The middle infield vacancy has Tyler Freeman, Gabriel Arias and many others pushing for time while the outfield has George Valera and Oscar Gonzalez making a case. That doesn’t include players like Nolan Jones who just need to find their spot in Cleveland.

Now, you can never have enough prospect talent, but finding a deal worth the value that Ramirez brings to Cleveland would be very difficult. As MLB Trade Rumors eluded to in their coverage of the report, Ramirez’s deal and Cleveland’s optimism combine to make a very high price if Ramirez were to be dealt. Not to say it isn’t possible, but getting there would be a challenge for sure.

For the return, Toronto surely would have had to sacrifice their top prospect in catcher Gabriel Moreno. A catcher for the future is still a need in Cleveland and while Bo Naylor and Bryan Lavastida have the potential to provide that role, they won’t be ready just yet. Moreno got a taste of Triple-A in 2021, so an early season promotion to the big leagues could be in order for 2022.

The downside is that Moreno played just 37 games during the 2021 season. Now, he did slash .367/.441/.651 and he’s been a career .300+ hitter in the minors, but the injury concerns are obvious.

Beyond Moreno, there isn’t a ton of immediate help that could intrigue Cleveland. Perhaps the addition of Cavan Biggio could have sweetened the deal a bit, being a youthful utility player that could try his hand at second, but his sub-.250 batting average and inability to settle in anywhere in the field doesn’t make that seem worth it either.

The unfortunate reality is that these talks might not be completely done yet. Jose Ramirez is still a bargain deal moving forward with club options for both 2022 and 2023. As for the Blue Jays, they will have an even bigger need for Ramirez heading into the upcoming season, meaning they might be willing to up their offer. The problem is that they just don’t have much to offer in the first place.

From the perspective of the Cleveland Guardians, a team with a low budget, they have to listen to offers. When it comes to Ramirez, though, the deal would have to be one of the best ever offered. Between his team friendly contract and the talent he offers on the field, Ramirez’s value to the front office is near priceless. For now, we can be thankful a deal wasn’t done, but we still have to sit on the edge of our seats all winter hoping talks don’t resume.

As a guy who likes to watch Toronto games I can assure you that Lourdes Gurriel would have been part of that deal.

In fact Toronto is one of the few teams that has the "major league ready" type talent young and cheap enough for Cleveland.

Glad it didn't happen of course.

Is this the most critical Cleveland offseason of this century? Plus trade targets and the shortstop situation: Meisel’s Mailbag



Aug 15, 2021; Detroit, Michigan, USA; Cleveland Indians starting pitcher Triston McKenzie (24) is congratulated by third baseman Jose Ramirez (11) after the eighth inning against the Detroit Tigers at Comerica Park. Mandatory Credit: Rick Osentoski-USA TODAY Sports

By Zack Meisel Oct 19, 2021 9

CLEVELAND – There’s no time to waste. Let’s get to your questions (which have been lightly edited for clarity).

Zack, do you get the sense this is the biggest offseason for the franchise since the one before the opening of Jacobs Field in ‘94? With the rebrand, the lease extension, stadium upgrades and a cynical fan base, seems like ownership and the front office have a lot to deliver on with zero margin of error. Money is at the heart of resolving most of these problems. Is ownership prepared not only to add payroll to field a winning club but to fund the increased marketing cost to sell this rebrand? — Eric F.

No pressure, right?

I don’t think it’s hyperbole to make the argument that it’s as critical an offseason as the franchise has faced in at least a quarter-century.

The offseason after that dreadful 68-94 season and the dismissal of Manny Acta in 2012 proved important, too. They hired Terry Francona immediately and signed Nick Swisher and Michael Bourn to signal some operational change to the fan base. Those signings didn’t ultimately pay the dividends the team had hoped, but those were opportunistic moves intended to galvanize the fan base and launch a new era of Cleveland baseball.

Sound familiar?

This calendar year has included a trade of the face of the franchise, a microscopic payroll, a former coach’s off-the-field scandal, the polarizing replacement of a 106-year-old team name, the manager stepping away, three (and, really, four) no-hitters and a series of trades that converted the final two months of the season into a stretch of oft-unwatchable auditions. Aside from the lease extension, the Progressive Field newsroom has pumped out one negative news headline after another.

It’s imperative that the front office shoos away some of the storm clouds that have hovered over the franchise for the last year, that they supply reasons for people to discuss the actual players and outlook for the club, especially considering, with a few shrewd moves, this team can nudge its way into contention in 2022. The best way to unite the fan base and to guard against apathy is to attract customers to the product on the field. The best way to sell new team merchandise (and tickets) is to make a few moves that convince fans that bright days are ahead, whether that’s by signing José Ramírez to an extension, acquiring a legitimate corner outfielder who can hit in the middle of the order, swinging a couple of prudent trades, or all of the above.

I’m fairly confident, based on some late-season conversations, that the front office understands the assignment. I’m never sure if ownership has a full grasp of the pulse of the fan base.

No pressure.

I don’t get the concept of Amed Rosario “having earned” the shortstop job. I know the front office said it, but shortstop is THE most important defensive position on the field and I have seen with my own eyes that Rosario is vastly inferior here compared to other possibilities. Rosario has hit well for sure, but defense matters a lot. Does the front office really believe that his hitting will fall apart if he’s asked to move to second base or a corner outfield spot? He is athletic and willing and able to adjust, right? — Dave B.

It’s a complicated situation because it requires the team to accurately forecast how things might unfold this winter and next season. Everyone knows Rosario isn’t the preferred long-term solution at shortstop. He’s only temporarily at the front of the line. Gabriel Arias, Andrés Giménez and Brayan Rocchio are all better suited, defensively, for that position.

Rosario, though, has hit well enough to earn a spot somewhere, and they don’t want to officially move him elsewhere until:

1. Any of those other guys prove they can handle big-league pitching.
2. They understand the complexion of the roster following their offseason maneuvering.

The tricky part is they know they’ll eventually move him to a different position, so at some point, he’ll likely need to learn how to play second base or left field (unless he’s traded). He has demonstrated a willingness to embrace any assignment. But when do they send him the bat signal? They granted him only a couple weeks in Arizona last spring to take a crash course on manning center field, which was unfair to him.
Where will Amed Rosario play in 2022? (Justin K. Aller / Getty Images)

What’s your prediction for how the infield will look in 2024? — Michael K.

I’ll go in order of confidence, starting with Tyler Freeman at second base. I’m pretty sure he could hit .300 while blindfolded. After that, there’s a Franmil Reyes-sized gap in my confidence level. I’ll say Arias at third. Obviously, Ramírez could still don a Cleveland uniform at that point. Who knows? Let’s go with Rocchio at shortstop. This is truly a futile exercise. I loathe you for making me do this. I’m not sure where that would leave Giménez, who I think could have a breakout season next year. This team has too many middle infielders. Don’t sleep on Jose Tena, either.

And what’s wild about this prompt is, first base might be the most challenging spot to predict. It could be Bobby Bradley. Or Nolan Jones. Or Jhonkensy Noel. Or even Bryan Lavastida. Or an external addition. So I’ll say Josh Naylor.

Ask me again in an hour. I’m sure I’ll have four different answers.

Zack, if ownership can only afford to give one extension, the front office calls you and asks which player to sign, José Ramírez or Shane Bieber, what is your answer? Lastly, what does that contract look like? — Andrew L.

My answer? “Finally, you all have wised up and are taking my recommendations to heart.” I’d tell them to sign Ramírez. We’ll cover the specifics of such a deal in more detail in the coming days. The way Ramírez plays, the effort and energy and brainpower he’s supplied this franchise for years, he deserves it. He’s a perennial MVP candidate who has few, if any, faults in his profile. He hits home runs. He doesn’t strike out. He reaches base at a healthy clip. He steals a bunch of bases, despite unspectacular speed. He played Gold Glove-level defense in 2021. His teammates follow his lead. And the fan base deserves to watch him excel in all of those facets for another five years or so, especially since Ramírez is content to stay in Cleveland.

Imagine how many more Guardians T-shirts with Ramírez and No. 11 on the back they would sell if they ink him to a new deal this winter and fans no longer have to stress about where he might be playing three months, nine months or 15 months from now.

News came out about the Blue Jays calling the Indians inquiring about José Ramírez at the trading deadline. From Cleveland’s perspective, what would it take from the Blue Jays to trade him? (I realize that they want to extend him.) — Gil R.

Toronto is perhaps the team that makes the most sense as a trade partner. They were in on Francisco Lindor, too, and they have a bounty of young talent with which they could part.

But now is not the time. Check back midseason if Cleveland is floundering.

Thoughts on trying to trade for Cody Bellinger? Heard some buzz that the Dodgers are trying to move him this offseason. What would you be willing to give up to get two years of a former MVP? — Joey H.

If I operated a team that wielded plenty of financial flexibility — clearly the result of my idea of Jetflix, a global company that specializes in airport movie theaters, patent pending — Bellinger would be in my crosshairs.

He’s two years removed from being the NL MVP, and some of his 2021 struggles — and they were profound and alarming, no doubt — can be chalked up to injuries: shoulder surgery, leg fracture, rib fracture. He’s only 26 and he started his career with three prolific seasons, so there are no questions about his ability. He has two seasons of team control and can play first base or any outfield position. His potential value is sky-high.

The issue for Cleveland, of course, is the price. He’ll earn an estimated $16 million salary for 2022. If the Dodgers, a team that prints cash, dangle him on the trade market, does that mean they believe he’s damaged goods? They have a smart front office, so it would make me think twice. Plus, it’s not only the $16 million, which is already an uncomfortable financial risk for this organization, given a guy who posted a .165/.240/.302 slash line would be occupying perhaps 20-25 percent of the payroll. They would also have to fork over some players, assuming the Dodgers opt to tender him a contract rather than completely cut ties with him.

Cleveland needs young, controllable hitters. The Angels need a young, controllable pitcher. The Angels have outfielders to spare and Cleveland has pitching. Tell me a Jo Adell for Triston McKenzie trade doesn’t make sense for both teams? — Mike B.

These two teams have aligned for a long time, and there has been some level of mutual interest in the past. The Angels inquired about Mike Clevinger’s availability at one point. Certainly, the names Jo Adell and Brandon Marsh have surfaced during those conversations. Even if Cleveland isn’t keen on dealing from its starting pitching depth, there’s no harm in these two teams striking up another dialogue this winter.

Adell, the 10th overall pick in 2017, will turn 23 in April and has nothing left to prove against minor-league pitching. He posted a .703 OPS in 35 games for the Angels in 2021. Not too long ago, every outlet in the prospect rankings sphere placed him among the league’s top future stars. Marsh, a 2016 second-round pick, will turn 24 in December. He logged a .673 OPS in 70 games for the Angels this year, his first big-league experience.

The Angels also have Mike Trout and, for another year, Justin Upton in the outfield, and Shohei Ohtani at designated hitter when he’s not standing atop the rubber. Meanwhile, they ranked 12th in the AL with a 4.68 ERA, an issue that has plagued them for years. Cleveland, of course, sorely needs upgrades in left and right field. If I’m Antonetti and Chernoff, I’m first trying to package some prospects for a proven outfielder before I consider moving a starting pitcher. They’ll have more reliable rotation depth in 2022 than they did in 2021, but they still learned the hard way this year how critical that depth can be.

Is Luke Voit a possible target this offseason, given his relationship with the Yankees being strained and the need for a legitimate first baseman in Cleveland? Would love to see him with the team considering how abysmal first base was this year. — Mark T.

There’s no reason not to inquire. Voit’s career slash line: .267/.357/.510. He led the league in home runs in 2020. The Guardians, and most teams, could use that degree of production.

Voit didn’t fare as well in 2021, but he was limited to 241 plate appearances. He has three years of team control remaining, even though he’ll turn 31 in February. Historically, he hits the ball hard and does so with great frequency. His strikeout rate is below average, but nothing preposterous. He’s more well-rounded than the three-true-outcome type of hitter that has become more prevalent across the league, and a category Bradley, the clubhouse leader to start at first base in 2022, is trending toward joining.

The front office will prioritize outfield upgrades first and foremost, but there’s no downside to learning what it might cost to pry Voit out of the Bronx.

Can we officially declare ourselves the losers when it comes to the Dîaz/Bauers/Santana/Encarnacion deals? Was this a win for ownership financially, but a loss on the field? — Mark P.

Well, they completely whiffed on Jake Bauers, obviously. (His OPS did climb from .557 with Cleveland to .572 with Seattle.) Yandy Díaz’s on-base ability would have benefited a scuffling lineup the last couple years. The trade had several tentacles, so it’s not as simple as Bauers for Díaz. Even Cole Sulser, a minor-league reliever Cleveland sent to Tampa in the deal, submitted an eye-opening season (2.70 ERA, 2.98 FIP, 73 strikeouts in 63 innings) for the Orioles this year. We can’t ignore that Carlos Santana delivered his signature season — 34 home runs, a .911 OPS, his only All-Star nod and participation in the Home Run Derby in front of his home crowd — in his return to Cleveland in 2019. It was fueled, in part, by finances, but this probably isn’t the trade Antonetti or Chernoff have pasted atop the “Greatest Heists” section of their resumes.

When will The Athletic update the app from Indians to Guardians? And same with the team’s socials? Is there a specific date/deadline like right after World Series? — Francis B.

There will be a day in the next several weeks when all of the above takes place. On our end, there’s a bunch of internal website and programming work that must be completed. The team, meanwhile, wants to wait until after the World Series and for when they have some merchandise to sell and have their social media platforms ready.

Hey Zack, if we were to put together The Athletic combine, who would walk away as the consensus No. 1 pick? I got you over Zac in the 40 and Kelsey in the shuttle. Bench press and long jump is anyone’s game. — Alex A.

Tell Zac there’s a Galley Boy at the end of his running lane and he’ll rival Usain Bolt.

The ins and outs of a potential José Ramírez contract extension with the Cleveland Guardians



CLEVELAND, OH - JUNE 16: Cleveland Indians third baseman Jose Ramirez (11) is congratulated after scoring a run during the third inning of the Major League Baseball game between the Baltimore Orioles and Cleveland Indians on June 16, 2021, at Progressive Field in Cleveland, OH.(Photo by Frank Jansky/Icon Sportswire via Getty Images)
By Zack Meisel 7h ago 25
CLEVELAND — Over the past five seasons, José Ramírez ranks third in the majors in WAR, behind only Mike Trout and Mookie Betts. He ranks third in extra-base hits, eighth in stolen bases, ninth in home runs and 10th in OPS.

And in that span, he has earned $24 million, a pittance compared with his superstar counterparts across the league. Ramírez provided the signature on that contract, though, as he jumped at the opportunity for financial security before the 2017 season.

Now, Ramírez is nearing another chance to cash in. With two years of team control remaining on that original contract extension, Cleveland’s front office is approaching a critical decision point. Can the two sides strike an agreement on an extension? Will he become another trade casualty? Or will the club let him walk after the 2023 campaign?

If this topic prompts a headache-inducing bout of déja vú, it’s understandable. Chris Antonetti and company just completed this song and dance with Francisco Lindor. The ending to that saga seemed inevitable. This script feels different. But is it?

Lindor was younger. He never signed an initial extension with the club. He was intent on betting on himself to ultimately maximize his payday, buoyed along the way by endorsement deals, a lucrative draft signing bonus and the league’s arbitration process. He always seemed destined for New York, Los Angeles or Chicago — a big market to match his magnetic personality and knack for locating the cameras and microphones. He held all of the leverage anytime he and his representation sat down with Cleveland’s front office.

Ramírez, 29, doesn’t hold as much power, in large part because of the five-year, $26 million extension he signed after his breakout 2016 season. That deal included a pair of club options which, thanks to his perennial MVP contention, increased to $12 million for 2022 and $14 million for 2023, still incredible bargains for the team.

The two sides are expected to discuss another extension at some point before the start of next season. These conversations typically take place early in spring training. Ramírez would prefer to remain in Cleveland for the rest of his career, sources say, and the feeling is mutual within the front office, but he’ll need a new contract for that to happen, and such a deal would cost Cleveland far more than the franchise has ever spent on a player. As always, it’ll boil down to dollars and sense.

Why Cleveland has leverage
Ramírez registered impressive minor-league numbers, but given his size and profile, the organization had him pegged for a super-sub role until he blossomed while filling in for an injured Michael Brantley as Cleveland advanced to the World Series five years ago. Even Ramírez wasn’t exactly sure what his future held. He has always been confident in his ability, as evidenced by his unflappable strut. Whether a 20-year-old September call-up, an MVP candidate or a stymied slugger searching for solutions at the plate, he has always walked around as if he owns the clubhouse, the dugout and the diamond. But when Cleveland offered him that below-market contract, he couldn’t refuse.

His decision to sign that original deal does arm the team with a bargaining chip. Ramírez is being severely underpaid in his prime, so this is a chance to correct that, and those two remaining years of team control could make the price of a new pact more palatable for the team.

As it stands, Ramírez would enter free agency shortly after his 31st birthday. Who knows what he might be able to earn two years from now in a world with a new collective bargaining agreement?

One thing to consider: Those in the organization suggest they offered Lindor north of $200 million to stay in Cleveland long term. Even if they figured Lindor would reject their offer, that cash exists. Antonetti has asserted the club can afford any player but lacks the financial flexibility to surround a handsomely paid player with a sufficient supporting cast.

Ramírez, though, is the only player on the books in line to earn more than $5 million next season. Cleveland reduced its payroll by nearly $100 million over the past few years. Signing Ramírez (or Shane Bieber) to an extension wouldn’t create an untenable payroll. Where there would likely be hesitancy for the organization is with how Ramírez’s salary might fit in the scope of the roster, say, five or six years from now, especially if his trade value has plummeted by then.

Why Ramírez has leverage
Well, he might be headed for his fourth top-five finish on the AL MVP ballot in the past five years. He’s a switch-hitter who rarely needs a day off. He racks up extra-base hits and consistently rates as one of the league’s top base runners. He produced perhaps his best defensive showing at third base in 2021. That seems like the sort of well-rounded player a team would covet, especially as it attempts to enter a new window of contention.

Ramírez has developed into one of the team’s unquestioned leaders, though not in a traditional, team-speech-giving manner. Coaches have instructed young players to copy his work ethic and the way he studies pitchers, which allows him to consistently steal bases despite unspectacular speed. It seems worthwhile to keep such an influence in the dugout and clubhouse, as Cleveland boasted the youngest roster in the league last season.

And then there’s the name change. Ramírez led the team in jersey sales in 2021. Imagine how many No. 11 Guardians tops might fly off the shelves if they ink him to a long-term deal. Otherwise, fans must consider whether such a purchase will become a relic in a year or two. The team needs to spur sales of its new merchandise, and ensuring Ramírez will stick around for the foreseeable future seems like a way to do that.

This won’t be another team-friendly agreement that again prompts people to anoint Ramírez as the league’s greatest bargain. Ramírez wants a signature deal, one that grounds him in one place for the balance of his career, and for market value. Since he stands two years from free agency, he doesn’t possess all of the leverage, but the financial security he gained from the first extension puts him in a much stronger position.

Contract comparisons
Ten days before the 2018 season opener, the Astros and Jose Altuve agreed on a seven-year, $163.5 million contract, the largest in Houston history. They came to terms about seven weeks before his 28th birthday.

Like Ramírez, Altuve signed a team-friendly deal early in his big-league tenure, before he emerged as an MVP candidate and perennial All-Star. So, his new deal in 2018 essentially just tacked five years and $151 million onto the two bargain-priced years he had remaining on his original contract. Those five years cover his age-30 to age-34 seasons.

Altuve, 2016-21 seasons: .878 OPS, 28.1 fWAR
Ramírez, 2016-21 seasons: .895 OPS, 32.7 fWAR

Another possible Ramírez comparison would be Christian Yelich, who signed an extension with the Brewers in March 2020 that added seven years to his two years of team control. In all, he’ll earn at least $215 million over nine years, with some of that money deferred. His 2020 and ’21 salaries, stemming from a prior extension signed five years earlier, remained intact. He’ll earn $12.5 million and $14 million the next two years, nearly identical to the price of Ramírez’s upcoming club options.

Yelich will receive $26 million per year from 2022 to 2028, with a $20 million mutual option for ’29 (his age-37 season) or a $6.5 million buyout. Yelich’s deal is similar to Altuve’s in terms of average annual value. He also struck his agreement after authoring a pair of MVP-worthy seasons, which probably helped him pry some extra pennies from the Brewers’ pockets.

Yelich in 2018: .326/.402/.598 slash line, 36 home runs, 7.7 fWAR, first in NL MVP voting
Yelich in 2019: .329/.429/.671 slash line, 44 home runs, 7.8 fWAR, second in NL MVP voting

All-Star third baseman Anthony Rendon landed a seven-year, $245 million deal from the Angels at 29 years old, but he was a free agent, so his agent, Scott Boras, could spark a bidding war. Nolan Arenado signed an eight-year, $260 million extension at 27 before his final season of control in 2019.

The path forward
The cycle of losing stars before they become too expensive for Cleveland ownership’s taste isn’t going to end unless there’s a change in philosophy, a change in the league’s requirements (a salary floor, perhaps?) or a change in ownership structure (a minority investor, perhaps?). That doesn’t mean the organization can’t find one player to lock up long term under the right set of circumstances, and what a perfect time this would be to have fans lining up for tickets and No. 11 Guardians gear, two points of emphasis for the team’s business side this offseason.

It makes a ton of sense. It’s just … history casts doubt upon its likelihood. This would be the exception to every rule the organization has ever taught.

Top single-season salaries, CLE history
Edwin Encarnacion
2018
$18.7M
Carlos Santana
2019
$18.3M
Corey Kluber
2019
$17.2M
Nick Swisher
2014
$15M
Jason Kipnis
2019
$14.7M
Jason Kipnis
2018
$13.7M
Michael Bourn
2014
$13.5M
Travis Hafner
2012
$13M
Travis Hafner
2011
$13M
Carlos Santana
2017
$12M
Michael Brantley
2018
$11.5M
Travis Hafner
2010
$11.5M
Travis Hafner
2009
$11.5M
Francisco Lindor
2019
$10.6M
Corey Kluber
2018
$10.7M
Cody Allen
2018
$10.6M
Jake Westbrook
2008
$10M
Jake Westbrook
2009
$10M
Kerry Wood
2009
$10M
Juan Gonzalez
2001
$10M
(Note: Does not include players who were traded during the season or prorated salaries from the 2020 season.)

In terms of the size of the largest contract in each team’s history, Cleveland is tied for last with Pittsburgh. It has never handed out a contract worth more than $60 million. It has never paid a player a salary higher than the $18.7 million Edwin Encarnación made in 2018. And while the conditions in this instance seem more favorable for a union than usual, the two sides still have to pinpoint some middle ground, and that often proves difficult.

The timing is also a bit tricky. If the club doesn’t keep Ramírez long term, then a trade becomes more probable. And Ramírez knows that. But if contract discussions reach a dead end, the longer the team waits to trade him — and rival general managers will pester Antonetti like a swarm of gnats — the more value he loses. Cleveland learned this with Lindor, who was dealt before his final season of team control. At the same time, neither the front office nor the fan base could probably stomach another trade of a roster linchpin, especially as the organization launches its rebrand and attempts to return to contention.

these 2 deals probably convinced the team to be really careful

Nick Swisher
2014
$15M

Michael Bourn
2014
$13.5M

Those were definitely disasters.

That said, it goes without saying Jose Ramirez is a whole different animal. And he's a guy they know. The others were imports.

Wayne Garland

The funny thing about the 10 years for $2M for gsrland is that even hslf through the contract term that annual sslary was super low. Could have been an amazing bargain
If he had just kept healthy

Blowing that money on Garland kept the Tribe from making any major deal for a long time.

Another lesson from Garland is that starting pitchers are far higher risk for a long term contract then position players.

Revisiting 2021 Cleveland baseball predictions: Where did they go wrong, and what lies ahead?



MINNEAPOLIS, MN - SEPTEMBER 14: Amed Rosario #1 of the Cleveland Indians hits an RBI double against the Minnesota Twins in the third inning of game two of a doubleheader at Target Field on September 14, 2021 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. (Photo by David Berding/Getty Images)

By Zack Meisel 4h ago 11

CLEVELAND — As someone who analyzes Cleveland’s roster in his sleep — no, really, I’ve accidentally FaceTimed a player after I dozed off and I once dreamed that they signed Jason Isringhausen, years after he retired — you would think my annual preseason predictions would be on target. You would think.

Let’s revisit what I forecasted in January, see if anything held up over the course of the season and determine where it all went wrong and what lies ahead.

1. Cleveland’s outfield will actually be fine.

You dope.

My original reasoning: Oscar Mercado couldn’t possibly fare worse than he did in 2020, Josh Naylor exhibited some upside and a Daniel Johnson/Jordan Luplow platoon could work. Each case ended up carrying some level of truth.

Mercado wasn’t worse. But he was far from sufficient. The same goes for Bradley Zimmer, Harold Ramirez, Eddie Rosario, Ben Gamel and just about everyone the club trotted out there.

Naylor occasionally flashed some potential, but a gruesome injury halted his season in its tracks and left us with more questions than answers.

“There’s no doubt, he’s going to come back,” Franmil Reyes said. “He’s a guy who leaves his heart on the field. That (broken) leg is not going to stop him.”

Trading for Myles Straw helped fill a void in center field. But, yet again, upgrading this group will top the priority list this winter.

2. Franmil Reyes will actually embody the power threat his massive frame suggests he should be.

This held true. Reyes socked only nine home runs during the shortened 2020 season, but he belted 30 in 2021, and that’s while missing six weeks because of an oblique injury. He believes he’s capable of even more, and not just in terms of targeting the Progressive Field scoreboard with one of his moonshots.

“I don’t think it’s enough,” Reyes said. “The years that I’ve been having, the 37 homers (in 2019), the 30 homers this season, I don’t think it’s enough. In my heart, it’s not enough. I don’t know. Maybe I can (have) a 45 to 50 homer season with 120 RBIs. But Cleveland hasn’t seen it all. I haven’t seen it all, so I don’t know what the limit is. I don’t have a limit.”

Reyes added that he wants to arrive at spring training in better shape, as he did in 2020, when he stopped eating sweets and dropped 18 pounds.

3. Nolan Jones will join the big-league club in June.

Not only did this forecast fall flat, but Jones endured a rough season at Triple-A Columbus, where he remained all year. He got off to a dreadful start and posted a .238/.356/.431 slash line overall. He suffered a high-ankle sprain in late August that required surgery, which will sideline him until the spring.

This prediction might pan out better in 2022, as Jones will likely have to force his way onto the roster with a better showing in Columbus, which he even said himself in an interview with The Athletic.

“I can’t get to the big leagues before I really excel and prove that I’m one of the top players in Triple A,” he said.

4. We’ll all be exhausted of the name-change talk by Opening Day.

It’s a never-ending polarizing topic, and it’ll continue to be as the team switches over to the new name next month and begins next season with new gear and ballpark signage. I did correctly guess Guardians as the choice (though I preferred Hazards), which the organization revealed in July through a video narrated by Tom Hanks. It always seemed like the safe, harmless option.

5. The team’s Triple-A rotation will be better than a handful of major-league rotations.

Yikes. The Triple-A rotation became the major-league rotation for a while, and that experiment flopped. The original thought was that Triston McKenzie, Logan Allen, Scott Moss, Eli Morgan and Sam Hentges could contribute. McKenzie actually started the season in the big-league rotation and rebounded from an abysmal start to the second half. Morgan flashed major-league ability. But, well, the rest was ugly. The lack of a 2020 minor-league season hurt Hentges and J.C. Mejía as they transitioned to the higher level. Allen struggled for much of the season, and Moss couldn’t stay healthy.

At the risk of not learning from my mistake, I’ll mention that the Triple-A rotation in 2022 — Morgan, Cody Morris, Adam Scott, Konnor Pilkington, Peyton Battenfield, Juan Hillman and the other Logan Allen could all be in the mix — should be quite formidable.


Emmanuel Clase posted a 1.29 ERA this season. (Frank Jansky / Getty Images)
6. The bullpen will encounter some bumps but flash plenty of potential.

There were certainly bumps. It was a rough, potentially Cleveland-tenure-ending year for Nick Wittgren, who is a non-tender candidate. James Karinchak fell off so rapidly after a blistering start that he required a September visit to Triple A.

Emmanuel Clase, on the other hand, blossomed into one of MLB’s most reliable ninth-inning forces and ought to receive American League Rookie of the Year consideration.

Anthony Gose offered intrigue in the closing weeks. Nick Sandlin looked the part of a late-innings reliever before he suffered a shoulder strain.

The team leaned heavily on veterans Wittgren, Bryan Shaw and Blake Parker, which could leave some openings on the roster for next season.

7. An unexpected hitter will have a breakout season at the plate.

Amed Rosario, come on down. He had a miserable 2020 but insisted it was a fluke. He rebounded to provide stability near the top of Cleveland’s order.

“Since I was in the minors,” Reyes said, “I’ve been hearing this name: Amed Rosario, with the Mets. He was a big prospect with the organization. I remember when I was playing in Triple A with the El Paso Chihuahuas, he was with Las Vegas — not the same year, but the guys who repeated the league in El Paso talked to me about Amed Rosario, how good he was there. So I know what kind of hitter he is from what I had heard. That’s good that he proved himself every day, proved that he can be here and hit.”

The issue for the club is it needed more than one hitter to fall into this category. Among those listed in January, Naylor and Luplow suffered injuries (and then Luplow was dealt to the Rays). Johnson never caught traction. Bobby Bradley sizzled for a month before his bat cooled considerably.

From the original article in January: “Outside of (Jose) Ramírez, Cleveland’s lineup lacks reliable sources of output.” That remained the case, with only Reyes, Rosario and Straw contributing with a modicum of consistency.

8. Francisco Lindor will be the Opening Day shortstop … for the Toronto Blue Jays.

The original article was published two days before Cleveland dealt Lindor to the… New York Mets. The Blue Jays were also in the running to acquire the All-Star shortstop. Instead, Toronto signed Marcus Semien, who clubbed a career-high 45 home runs and should finish third in the AL MVP balloting.

Lindor, meanwhile, struggled in his first season in the Big Apple after inking a 10-year contract extension that kicks in next year. In his first season outside of Cleveland, he logged a .230/.322/.412 slash line.

9. At times, they’ll look like the class of the league. Other times, they’ll look like bottom feeders.

This thought was spurred on by the youth on the roster. They employed a host of unproven players. Injuries to the starting rotation didn’t help their cause, either. But this prediction turned out to be on the money.

Cleveland somehow stood 10 games above .500 in late June. Then a nine-game slide all but removed it from the postseason chase, and after four trades and a change of manager, the final two months resembled extended spring training. Oh, and the team set a record for being on the wrong end of a no-hitter. There were some early highs, and there were plenty of uninspiring stretches.

10. They’ll finish third in the AL Central.

I predicted an 80-82 record. They finished 80-82. (Thank you, thank you. I know, sometimes I even impress myself.) Really, though, this isn’t deserving of a victory lap. I didn’t foresee their rotation being wrecked. And I thought the division would be more competitive. The Twins seemed like a contender. They face-planted out of the gate and never recovered. So, Cleveland wound up in second place, holding off the upstart Tigers. Next season, the division could be more compelling, with Detroit and Kansas City on the upswing and the White Sox the favorite to retain the AL Central crown.