Cleveland Sports Forum

If they pick up the options on Sizemore and Carmona, that's $22 million. They also are committed to paying Travis Hafner $13 million. So that makes $29 million for those three players.

$39M for a 5th starter; a CF who is highly unlikely to play most of the season and produce an 800 OPS when he's healthy; and a DH-only who is no more likely to play 80 games and could break down totally. That's a huge pile of dough for a "small market" "low budget" team. If it were me I would let them all go.

Although I recognize that the Hafner $ is paid to him even if he doesn't play for us. I just don't want him around hogging a roster spot.

3. Nor are there any other center field prospects at the top level of the farm system ready for 2012. Alternatives on the roster are Zeke Carrera and Trevor Crowe. Kosuke Fukadome is a free agent at the end of the season, but considered best in right field.

4. At least eight teams are supposed to be looking for center fielders in 2012. That means the price for one will be high. If the Indians pass on Sizemore's option, they believe another team will probably pick him up at that price range. This is the era where the average payroll is close to $100 million, even if the Tribe's payroll moves from about $50 million to $70 million in 2012.

5. I'd offer Sizemore a contract with a $3 million base and lots of incentives. It can even be hooked into a lucrative long-term deal if he plays 120 games, or some other indication of durability. But my guess is the Tribe will simply pick up the option because they believe there will be a healthy market for Sizemore, despite all his injuries.

Terry Pluto gives all the reasons why the Indians will pick up Sizemore's option and then says he would offer him a 3 million base.

That makes no sense at all. Sizemore would love to be a FA. Terry is really losing it.

Carmona is not even a question mark unless he is traded. Waste of time discussing it or writing an article about it.

Sizemore and Carmona will receive 16 million combined in 2012.

sOME GAME stories that haven't been posted. Not for the game report but for the comments on younger playersl


MINNEAPOLIS: The Indians didn’t have to wear shades, given Saturday’s cloud cover at Target Field, but their future looked bright, anyway.

It was more than a 10-4 win over the Twins; it was how victory was achieved.

Novice starter Jeanmar Gomez got the win by giving up two runs and seven hits in 6‚ innings; rookie Jason Kipnis barged his way into the middle of three rallies by contributing a triple, double and single, driving in two runs and scoring three.

Then there was Carlos Santana, finishing his first full season as the No. 1 catcher, hitting his fourth home run in five games.

Asked kiddingly if he planned to blast a homer per game, Santana said, “I try to hit one every day.’’

His latest home run pushed his total to 25 for the season, tying him with Victor Martinez as the franchise record holder for homers by a switch hitter.

“Victor was my favorite player when I was younger,’’ said Santana, who wears No. 41 on in honor of Martinez. “He has talked to me about experiences in the big leagues and how to do everything.’’

Santana has had a roller-coaster ride of a season. He has done as expected and become a force in the middle of the lineup. But there have been stretches of nonproductivity along the way, and he has struggled to keep his batting average above .240.

Manager Manny Acta says not to worry.

“Other than his batting average, which is not as important because he walks a lot, Carlos has a pretty good first year going,’’ he said. “He has had to make adjustments, and he’s been learning to catch and play first base. That’s throwing a lot at him.’’

And Santana is not a finished product at the plate.

“From the left side, he gets too pull happy,’’ the manager said. “He needs to use the whole field more consistently.’’

Acta thinks Santana eventually will be a hitter who does almost everything well.

“To me, he will be close to a .300 hitter and have almost a .400 on-base percentage,’’ the manager said. “And he’ll be able to hit 25-30 home runs a year, which is not too shabby.’’

One thing is obvious: Santana does not lack confidence.

“Not at all,’’ Acta said. “Not at all.’’

Asked which hitting skill he would most like to master, Santana said: “The total. I like to hit home runs, have RBI, get walks, score runs and have a good batting average. And tomorrow is a new day. If I hit a home run, I’ll be happy.’’

Despite the inexperience of Kipnis, Acta was aware that the offense would take a hit when he went down with a strained hamstring in mid-August, as the Tribe was desperately trying to catch the Tigers, who wrapped up the division title Friday night.

“We knew then that we would miss him big-time,’’ the manager said. “He’s a guy who uses the whole field, hits left-handers and right-handers and brings a lot of energy.’’

Kipnis does not have a lock on the regular second-base job next year, though it would be an upset if he did not win the everyday position.

“I have to go into spring training and earn it,’’ he said. “Nobody hands out [starting] spots.’’

Since being recalled from Columbus on Aug. 30, for the third time this season, Gomez (4-2, 3.78 ERA) has won all four of his starts, posting a 1.88 earned-run average and giving up 25 hits and six walks in 24 innings.

“Since he came up, he has more command of his fastball, and his velocity is better,’’ Acta said. “His fastball sits around 91, like it did last year, and it has good movement. I think pitching with the lead helped him today.’’

So did Gomez.

“The offense gave me help today,’’ he said. “I tried to go out thinking that the game was tied and that I needed to make good pitches. I wanted to stay ahead in the count.’’

It looked like the Tribe’s never-ending list of injuries would get longer when Gomez had to come out of the game in the seventh after tweaking his right knee.

“Everything is OK,’’ he said. “I just almost twisted it.’’

Said Acta, “I’m not anticipating that he’ll miss a start.’’

Asdrubal Cabrera, who does not fit into the young-and-hungry category, also had a big day at the plate with four singles, two runs and one RBI.

His single in the first inning snapped an 0-for-20 skid.

“This game is not easy,’’ Cabrera said. “You have to keep at it.’’

The new JuanGone?

MINNEAPOLIS: Shin-Soo Choo was sent back to Cleveland after reinjuring his left oblique and won’t play again this season.

”"It’s the same injury, but he’s done for the season,” manager Manny Acta said.

After being on the disabled list since Aug. 28, Choo was activated for Thursday night’s game against the Rangers in Texas and reinjured the oblique on his first swing.

Indians fans and even some members of the media who still are paying attention to baseball have asked why Josh Tomlin remains in manager Manny Acta’s plans for the last two weeks of the season.

Acta has a different question: Why not?

Tomlin has been on the disabled list since Aug. 26 with a strained right elbow. In the past few days, he has thrown two bullpen sessions without ill effect, and he is scheduled to pitch a simulated game today, probably two innings and 50 pitches.

If he passes that test, Tomlin will start one game of Saturday’s makeup doubleheader against the Twins at Progressive Field. Tomlin will be limited to about 80 pitches inasmuch he was unable to build up his pitch count on a rehabilitation assignment.

Acta wants to know what’s wrong with that plan.

“Tomlin’s elbow is not sore,” the manager said Monday. “We’re not in the business of having guys who are fine being shut down [for the season]. The doctor who examined him said he was fine.

“It’s not like we have to see him one more time, but if he feels good why not let him pitch? We don’t feel that there’s a risk of losing him for a long time.”

Keep in mind that Tomlin said he’s in favor of coming back before the schedule concludes.

Until he gave up six runs in 4‚ innings during his last start, Aug. 24 against the Mariners (an outing that presumably was sabotaged by the elbow injury), Tomlin boasted a 12-6 record and was headed for a 15-win season in his first full year in the big leagues.

The chance to reach that milestone is gone, and now that the Tribe has been eliminated from the Central Division race, the thinking among some observers is that Tomlin would be better off to rest his arm until spring training.

On the other hand, if there is nothing wrong with Tomlin, wouldn’t it be to his advantage to make one or two starts to help him build confidence in the elbow for 2012?

“Tomlin ran through the tests,” Acta said. “He says he feels fine. If he wants to pitch, he’s going to pitch.”

The Indians made it official by recalling Zach McAllister from Columbus to pitch the second game of today’s day-night, separate-admission doubleheader against the White Sox.

Certainly, McAllister hopes to be an option when the Tribe picks its rotation next spring, but at this point, he is a long shot to be one of the team’s top five starters.

“He had a good year in Triple-A, but that hasn’t translated up here,’’ manager Manny Acta said Monday. “We need to see more [improvement] from him up here. Tomorrow will be a good test.’’

McAllister, 23, posted a 12-3 record and 3.32 earned-run average at Columbus, but he was far from successful in two major-league outings. In two spot starts, he gave up 10 earned runs and 15 hits in 7· innings against the Blue Jays and Mariners.



MAKING HIS MARK — In his past 10 games, Lonnie Chisenhall is batting .311 (14-for-45), four home runs and 10 RBI.

“He’s hitting better lately,’’ Acta said. “He’s starting to get comfortable up here. Some guys take longer than others. And some people forget he was playing at Akron last year.’’

Even though Chisenhall bats from the left side, five of his seven homers have come off left-handed pitchers.

“I don’t see him struggling against lefties,’’ Acta said. “He’s going to be a good hitter. Period.’’



OTHER STUFF — The Tribe has lost five in a row at home. … The Indians have hit 144 home runs. All of last year, they hit 128. … Carlos Santana is batting .355 in his past eight games. … Asdrubal Cabrera hit his 23rd homer of the year, leaving him one short of the Tribe’s all-time record for home runs by a shortstop, held by Jhonny Peralta.



FARM FACTS — Columbus will play one game against Omaha of the Pacific Coast League tonight in Albuquerque, N.M., for the Triple-A title. Mitch Talbot will start the defending champs. The game will be televised live on the Versus network.

CLEVELAND: Thankfully, few fans showed up at Progressive Field to watch, because the Indians’ 12-6 loss to the Mariners on Monday ranks among the more embarrassing games of the season. Maybe any season.

The visitors were forced to fly from Seattle to Cleveland to play the 4 p.m. makeup game then continue to Minneapolis, where they will play a three-game set with the Twins beginning tonight.

At least the Tribe made the trip worthwhile for the Mariners, though unintentionally. Certainly, David Huff couldn’t have enjoyed looking more like a coach throwing batting practice than a major-league starter.

Huff’s day included nine runs allowed (five earned) on seven hits and three walks.

“It was a very disappointing loss,” Indians manager Manny Acta said. “We gave David some runs to work with, but he had a rough day. And it was the wrong day with that doubleheader tomorrow [against the White Sox]. He just sucked the air right out of the team.”

Maybe not the whole team. Carlos Santana hit his fifth home run in his past seven games, lifting his total for the season to 26 and breaking the franchise record for home runs by a switch hitter. Victor Martinez, Santana’s favorite player as a kid, was the previous record holder.

“I’m very excited about that,” Santana said of the milestone. “I’m very happy, because I didn’t think I would hit 25 or 26 home runs.”

Going deep Monday had special significance for Santana beyond establishing a record.

“I hit the home run today for my mother,” he said. “It’s her birthday, and I try to hit a home run every year on her birthday.”

How often has he succeeded?

“This is three times in a row,” he said, excluding last year, when he was on the disabled list in September. “I hit one in Akron in 2009, and I hit one in 2008.”

At least one Tribe player was pleased with his own performance.

Lonnie Chisenhall’s error to start the third inning made four runs unearned for Huff. But that was hardly an excuse for the left-hander (who is presumably trying to show the club that he deserves a spot in next year’s rotation) to let six of the next eight batters reach base.

The offense staked Huff (2-6, 4.20 ERA) a lead in the first inning, but he gave up two runs in the second. When the Indians rallied for another run in the third to lead by two, Huff stumbled through the third inning — but not all the way — giving up seven more runs before Acta led him away.

“I left some balls up over the middle and they got hit pretty hard,” Huff said. “But I also got some pitches down, and they got some lucky hits. I’m very disappointed with myself. I think it was mostly stupid pitch selection.”

Acta had another explanation.

“David was not aggressive in the strike zone,” the manager said, referring not only to Monday’s outing but to Huff’s past four appearances. “He has to show he can get left-handers out. They’re hitting over .300 against him for his career.”

The three left-handed batters in the Seattle lineup were 5-for-10 against Huff, raising his average against lefties to .280 for the season.

Granted, Chad Durbin let in two of Huff’s runs, allowing a walk to Luis Rodriguez and the first grand slam for Mike Carp, the first two batters he faced.

In his past four starts, Huff is 0-4 with a 7.11 earned-run average. For some reason, when Huff pitches, the defense goes on sabbatical. In those same four starts, Huff has allowed 10 unearned runs. In nine big-league outings this season, Huff has given up 33 runs, 12 of them unearned.

The game was played in a light rain that got somewhat heavier after the last out of the seventh, when the umpires called for the field to be covered. The tarp did not come off, because the game was called after a 44-minute wait.

Seattle starter Charlie Furbush wasn’t much more effective than Huff. Then again, he was and he wasn’t.

It could be argued that he gave his team a chance to win, despite giving up six runs and 10 hits in five innings. Of course, that’s because Huff wasn’t much of an adversary.

Furbush (4-9, 5.22 ERA) was two totally different pitchers. In the first two innings, he gave up four runs. In the fifth, he gave up two more.

But the Indians did not forsake one of the things they do best: strike out. Furbush struck out eight in five innings, in one span striking out six in a row.

“I don’t want to take anything away from Furbush,” Acta said. “But those two teams rank one and two [in the league] in strikeouts. I think that had something to do with it.”

Huff looked like a different pitcher when he returned in August.

Unfortunately he's back to the bad old days again, not challenging lefties and getting killed.

The 12 Major League Sports Teams Running Out Of Fans
Posted: September 14, 2011 at 4:42 am

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3. Seattle Mariners
> Decrease in attendance: 40.54%
> 2001 W-L record: 116-46 (finished 1st in AL West)
> 2010 W-L record: 61-101 (finished 4th in AL West)
> League championships last decade: none

Seattle, led by powerhouse Ken Griffey Jr., had a solid team in the 90’s. In 2000, the team lost Griffey to Cincinnati, but gained a new star in Ichiro Szuki in 2001. In that year, the team had the best record in baseball. However, team play declined, and by 2010, it had the worst record in the American League. after 2001, the team hasn’t even made it to the playoffs. In 2001, seattle had an attendance of 3.5 million people, more than any team in baseball. In just ten years, that number has dropped to 2 million.
Also Read: The Highest-Paying Jobs With The Most Time Off

2. Baltimore Orioles
> Decrease in attendance: 44.00%
> 2001 W-L record: 63-98 (finished 4th in AL East)
> 2010 W-L record: 66-96 (finished 5th in AL East)
> League championships last decade: none

Baltimore’s golden years were arguably during the Cal Ripken Jr. era of the 90’s. The team was competitive nearly every year, and had the best record in the American League in 1997. After Ripken retired, the team’s talent — and most of its fan base — began to wane. The team is in a division with three of the best teams in the American League (the Yankees, the Red Sox, and the Rays) and the odds are stacked against it gaining a playoff berth. The team has not made the playoffs since 1997. In 2001, the annual stadium attendance in Baltimore was just over 3 million. Today, it is 1.74 million.


1. Cleveland Indians
> Decrease in attendance: 56.08%
> 2000 W-L record: 91-71 (finished 1st in AL Central)
> 2010 W-L record: 69-93 (finished 4th in AL Central)
> League championships last decade: none

Cleveland set a Major League Baseball record in 2001 after selling out every single home game since June 1995. The tide changed in 2001, when it lost to Seattle in the first round of the playoffs. The team never performed again at the winning level it had in the 90’s, only making the playoffs again in 2007, losing a heartbreaking loss to the Red Sox in the American League Championship. Attendance then plummeted even further, dropping to just 1.39 million from 3.17 million ten years ago. In 2001, Cleveland drew the fifth-most fans in all of baseball. Last year, the team had the lowest attendance. The team also set a major league record for the lowest attendance in a single game — just 9,853 people showed up to the second home game of the season.
-Michael B. Sauter



Read more: The 12 Major League Sports Teams Running Out Of Fans - 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/2011/09/14/the-12-

civ ollilavad wrote:

I'd prefer not to hear jack about Pomeranz and/or White until after pitchers and catchers report in 5 months.

ok, I won't say anything about how consistently ineffective White has been in his Rockie starts

Touche!

I'm still looking forward to Next Year, but I'm not prepped to think about the details yet.


That's what The Tribe Brass is for.


I'll just buy some viewing options and some real game Indians west coast tickets.

The team also set a major league record for the lowest attendance in a single game — just 9,853 people showed up to the second home game of the season.

Not quite sure what the author meant. The major league record for lowest attendace in a single game is a lot less than 9,853. Many of us probably have attended games, back in the 70s with smaller attendance. When someone makes just blatantly stupid mistake I tend not to trust anything he writes. Either he has no idea what the facts are or he does not know how to write a simple English sentence that expresses whatever it is he is trying to convey.

On September 8, 1916, the New York Yankees came to Philadelphia to play the hapless Athletics. The fans sitting in Shibe Park for the rain-delayed game were outnumbered by the men in uniform. In fact, when the Yankees were at bat, they had more players on the bench than fans in the seats. After an 8-2 win over the Yankees, for the only time in major league history, a team was two games back for every fan in attendance. 46 games back of the first place Red Sox and an announced attendance of 23.

Post Script: The 23 brave fans saw another record that day. Philadelphia outfielder Wally Schang, a switch-hitter was the first major leaguer to hit home runs in consecutive at bats from different sides of the plate

I believe the "modern" record also involves the Athletics. On April 17, 1979 only 653 people watched the hapless A's (they would lose 108 games in 1979) play the Seattle Mariners (who would lose 95 games that year). The A's won that game, too: 6-5.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_l ... z1Ycds36nA

Some people won't pass up any chance at knocking Cleveland, whether it is justified or not.