Cleveland Sports Forum

Asdrubal is available; not Jhonny? No it looks like his finale was 21 games in 2017.

Talk about no news.

Antonetti says absolutely nothing.

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/12 ... -more.html

I'll be sure to check it out.

civ ollilavad wrote:Not sure why Naquin not facing lefties keeps him from being a selective hitter against Righties; or explains why his best starts have ended in bad finishes.
i do see him on the list of OFs that the Tigers might be interested in. I guess he's hit pretty well against them. Well not great: 261/341/401. Much better against the Twins: 303/369/475. And really torches the Royals: 313/382/619.

So with the exception of the White Sox he does best against teams he plays against the most. Which proves something, but not sure what

civ - Reynolds and others talked about this. Facing left handers teaches hitters (lefty) to keep their shoulders in. It teaches them to remember to use the whole field since they can't "sell out" against a lefty.

See the Dodgers. They went from a serial platooning team to using guys like Muncy against all pitchers. Betts obviously aided this and Bellinger facing all.

would that have helped Naquin develop better selectivity skills? What kills him are:
1. very few walks
2. tails off every time the starts strong.

Carlos Santana agrees to 2-year deal with Royals per report

Carlos Santana has reportedly agreed to a two-year contract to join the Kansas City Royals. AP


By Joe Noga, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Free agent first baseman Carlos Santana has agreed to a two-year contract with the Kansas City Royals according to reports.

Santana, who ranks No. 2 on the Indians’ all-time walks list with 881 behind Jim Thome (1,008), is a career .327 hitter in 74 games at Kauffman Stadium. Santana’s .327/.449/.628 slash line and 1.077 OPS are his best numbers in any American League ballpark.


The Dominican native is coming off a season where he struggled to a .199 batting average and a career-low 91 OPS+, but did hit 34 homers with 93 RBI and a .911 OPS during a career year in 2019 as he was named a starter in his first All-Star Game.


According to ESPN’s Jeff Passan, Santana’s deal includes incentives and performance bonuses that could elevate the value to $18.5 million. He will earn $7 million in 2021 according to Heyman. The contract is pending a physical, reported MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand.

Acquired from the Dodgers in a 2008 trade for Casey Blake and cash, Santana blossomed into one of Cleveland’s most potent and consistent power bats over the next decade. A mainstay of the lineup that advanced to the World Series in 2016 and posted baseball’s best regular-season record in 2017, Santana signed a three-year free agent deal with Philadelphia in 2018. After a year with the Phillies, Santana was traded to Seattle and then back to Cleveland prior to the 2019 campaign.

Santana homered twice in a game 10 times for the Indians and hit six walk-off home runs to go along with four grand slams. He enjoyed a career-high 14-game hitting streak from June 30 to July 17 in 2016 and sprinted to his only career inside-the-park homer on Aug. 31, 2013 at Detroit.


A threat from both sides of the plate, Santana is the Indians’ franchise leader in home runs by a switch-hitter (216), tying him for fifth all-time with Hal Trosky behind Earl Averill, Manny Ramirez, Albert Belle and Thome. He is also the club’s career leader in RBI by a switch-hitter with 710.

In August, Santana surpassed Tris Speaker in career walks for the Indians. He led the majors with 47 walks, and walked more times than he struck out for the second time in his career. Santana, who ranks fourth among active players in career walks, finished with a .349 on-base percentage in 2020 and should help the Royals, who struggled with a .309 team OBP.

Santana is one of eight Indians hitters to collect 30 doubles, 25 home runs and 90 walks in the same season, posting 35/27/97 in 2011. Santana’s departure leaves Cleveland with a mix of inexperienced candidates to take over at first base, including youngsters Josh Naylor, Jake Bauers and Bobby Bradley.


Naylor, acquired in an August trade for Mike Clevinger from San Diego, played primarily in the outfield when he joined the Indians for the second’s second month. Bauers played mostly in the outfield during the 2019 season before being sent to Triple-A Columbus with 115 strikeouts. Bradley, a prolific power hitter in the minors, struggled during a 15-game callup in 2019.

He's a career .327 hitter in 74 games at Kauffman Stadium. Santana’s .327/.449/.628 slash line and 1.077 OPS are his best numbers in any American League ballpark.

[May be relevant who the pitchers he faced]

If you believe Santana is on the downside of his career, career numbers from his heyday years, mean nothing. Carlos had some great years with the Indians but, alas, all good things must end.

The Indians’ outfield plans and some free agents who might give the group a lift


By Zack Meisel Dec 8, 2020 34
CLEVELAND — The Indians are missing some information. It’s almost like their file disappeared before they could click save. Or their golden retriever shredded their only printed copy.

They figured by the time they arrived at this offseason, they would have a better grasp of Daniel Johnson’s potential. They would have a firm understanding of Oscar Mercado’s ability. They would know precisely how to deploy Jordan Luplow and Franmil Reyes. They would have more evidence that conveys whether Jake Bauers is a big-leaguer.

But that knowledge is lacking, thanks in large part to the absence of a minor-league season in 2020. The Indians also treated the outfield like a revolving door, as they scooped three names out of a hat each night, crossed their fingers, peered up at the heavens and prayed for a single or, c’mon, even a walk from one of the three starters.

They granted plenty of opportunities to veterans such as Delino DeShields and Domingo Santana, guys with established (and rather uninspiring) track records. Even Mike Freeman stole some at-bats from Johnson or Bauers or Mercado.

“We were hopeful that we would not only have major-league, but minor-league opportunities for that group of players to play and play regularly,” Chris Antonetti said. “That information would both help them with their development but also allow us to make some more informed decisions about them. Unfortunately, we didn’t have that.”

The result was putrid production from the ever-rotating outfield cast, and a leftover pile of unanswered questions about the group that remains heading into 2021. The club severed ties with DeShields and Tyler Naquin last week, but there are still a bunch of outfielders who figure to duke it out in spring training for the three starting spots. Nolan Jones could even factor into the equation in left or right field next summer.

It’s a young group, one that instills the front office with some cautious optimism. Johnson and Naylor have proven they can handle minor-league pitching; now it’s a question of whether those sparkling numbers can translate to the majors. Mercado impressed as a rookie in 2019, and the Indians will grant him every chance to recapture that form. At minimum, Luplow can hit lefties and Reyes can supply some power from the designated hitter spot.

And because the Indians don’t want to bail on that youthful group, it’s more likely they spend what few dollars ownership will provide on an infielder rather than another outfielder.

In either case, the flooded market should make some veterans more affordable. So, no, they’re not going to dive head-first into a bidding war for someone like Eddie Rosario, cut loose by the Twins last week. The wave of non-tenders added some intriguing names to the free-agent pool. Antonetti said the front office still hasn’t been assigned a specific payroll figure, but if the team trades Francisco Lindor, it’s looking at a projected payroll in the $45 million range — or about one-third of the 2018 Opening Day payroll.

Last week, we covered the middle-infield possibilities, and there are plenty. Antonetti confirmed it’s an area in which they could explore external additions.

Here’s a look at some of the available outfield options and the Indians’ approach to that position group.

Eddie Rosario
The Twins non-tendered Eddie Rosario last week. (Jesse Johnson / USA Today)
Probably too popular
Plenty of teams will covet these guys, and the Indians have no plans to dole out eight-figure salaries, so that eliminates at least a few names from this list. Had the Indians learned in 2020 that, say, Reyes could handle the outfield, that would have granted them flexibility with their DH role, though Ozuna, Rosario, Schwarber and Brantley — who could all spend some time at that spot in the coming years — figure to earn more lucrative deals than the Indians prefer to offer. The Indians have liked Bradley in the past, but signing him would prove counterintuitive to their aim to aid Mercado’s development.

Eddie Rosario: The Twins opted to non-tender him rather than pay him a projected $10 million in arbitration. And that’s after they placed him on waivers. (Like Brad Hand, he went unclaimed.) He’s been about 10 percent better than league average at the plate the last four seasons, and he’ll play next season at the age of 29.

George Springer: Over the last five seasons, Springer owns an .862 OPS. The three-time All-Star is one of the prized free agents in this class.

Jackie Bradley Jr.: He’ll turn 31 in April, but Bradley still plays a sound center field, and he posted a .283/.364/.450 in his walk year with Boston. That should help him earn a multi-year deal.

Kyle Schwarber: The Cubs didn’t want to pay him a projected $8 million in arbitration, so Schwarber, who will turn 28 in March, is a free agent. He endured a rough 2020, but he has plenty of power potential and a propensity to draw a ton of walks. He might have more suitors if the NL had a permanent DH spot or if he could play first base.

Marcell Ozuna: Even in a shortened season, a .338/.431/.636 slash line is jarring. That production should land Ozuna a hefty deal from someone, though his defensive shortcomings have many thinking he’d fare better in whichever league(s) has a DH spot.

Michael Brantley: Nothing has changed since he left Cleveland. He posted a Brantley-esque .309/.370/.497 slash line the last two years with the Astros. He’ll turn 34 in May.

Young and somewhat interesting
The question here is, if you’re the Indians front office, how confident are you that one of these guys would perform better than Johnson or Naylor or Mercado, and validate the financial commitment it would require to sign them? Now, if the Indians don’t mind keeping Reyes at DH, shifting Naylor to first base and keeping Jones in the minors for another year, they could slot a free agent into left field.

Albert Almora: The 26-year-old center fielder owns a .271/.309/.398 slash line in five seasons with the Cubs.

David Dahl: The Rockies non-tendered Dahl, their former top-10 pick, who is only 26 and boasts a career .828 OPS. Now, his numbers are much better at Coors Field than elsewhere and he has had some injury issues, but Dahl should still walk away this winter with a starting job somewhere outside of Denver.

Nomar Mazara: Mazara struggled in his first season away from the Rangers (.589 OPS), a rare weak spot in the White Sox lineup in 2020. He’s still only 25, but he might have to prove he deserves regular playing time.

Available, but are they worth it?
The Indians are hopeful that Naylor, Johnson, Luplow and perhaps Reyes can handle the corner spots, with Jones possibly being ready to contribute by midseason. Their minor-league numbers and recent track records suggest that’s certainly plausible. That might dampen the team’s intentions of pursuing these names. Might they court a center fielder to compete with or push Mercado, someone a bit more effective than DeShields and less injury-prone than Bradley Zimmer? If so, Goodwin and Pillar would fit that description.

Adam Duvall: He tallied 30-plus homers and doubles in both 2016 and ’17 before struggling in Cincinnati and rediscovering his hitting stroke in Atlanta. Last season, he hit 16 homers in 209 plate appearances.

Brian Goodwin: He has bounced from the Nationals to the Royals to the Angels to the Reds the last three years. Across 357 career games, the 30-year-old has logged a .772 OPS, with time spent at all three outfield spots.

Danny Santana: He enjoyed a career year in 2019, with 28 home runs, 21 stolen bases and an .857 OPS while starting at least six games at every infield and every outfield spot. And then in 2020, he batted .145 with a .511 OPS in 63 trips to the plate and then underwent elbow surgery, which could sideline him for the start of next season.

Kevin Pillar: Pillar, who will turn 32 next month, submitted his best offensive season in 2020, with a .288/.336/.462 slash line.

Robbie Grossman: The switch-hitter was in the Indians organization from December 2015 to May 2016 but never received a promotion from Triple-A Columbus. He has always boasted a healthy walk rate.

The bottom line
The Indians seem inclined to give Johnson and Naylor chances to nail down regular roles. Reyes would prefer to play the outfield rather than twiddle his thumbs from the bench. Jones could knock on the door after a trial run at Triple A. So while the outfield was an abomination in 2020, the Indians aren’t placing some outlandish expectations on the group by hoping it rebounds in 2021.

Assuming they trade Lindor, the middle infield could be in more dire shape on Opening Day. (Granted, they could acquire an infielder and/or an outfielder in such a deal.) The guess here is that they’ll invite an outfielder or two to spring training on a minor-league deal. Perhaps they’ll even sign one to a modest, one-year pact. But they’ll prioritize the infield when they scour the free-agent market.

(Top photo of Michael Brantley: Jim McIsaac / Getty Images)

Free-agent relievers who could fortify a young, intriguing Indians pen in 2021


By Zack Meisel Dec 8, 2020 17
CLEVELAND — The Indians’ rotation, with young starters sprouting up each year like weeds in a flower bed, receives the attention.

The Indians’ bullpen, though, offers plenty of intrigue heading into 2021. Even without Brad Hand, the group has a solid foundation with James Karinchak, Nick Wittgren, Phil Maton, Emmanuel Clase and Cam Hill.

If Anthony Gose can guide his upper-90s fastball and sidewinding slider into the strike zone, he could pose a daunting threat to hitters. Rookies Kyle Nelson and Nick Sandlin should be ready to contribute. And there will likely be a starter or two in the mix — maybe Cal Quantrill or Adam Plutko, or perhaps one of Logan Allen or Scott Moss.

Given the group’s inexperience, there’s a wide range of potential outcomes for many of the candidates. It’s a compelling collection of talent, but can they throw strikes and handle high-leverage situations? There will be some trial and error required.

With Hand and Oliver Pérez no longer part of the equation, the Indians might benefit from the presence of another reliable veteran. They aren’t going to spend on a top-tier reliever. They won’t be alone in that stance, as demonstrated when Hand cleared waivers. Any team could have claimed him and exercised his $10 million club option, but his salary, velocity decline and the anticipated market spoke louder than his dazzling ERA, FIP and strikeout-to-walk ratio.

There are a ton of relievers available in free agency. It wouldn’t be a surprise if the Indians snag a couple of them on minor-league deals or even a modest, major-league pact (the old Scott Atchison/Jeff Manship role). Here are a handful who might fly under the radar, have a reasonable price tag and could help to fortify an intriguing crop of Cleveland relievers.

Keynan Middleton: He has two things going for him: He’s only 27 and he throws hard. His fastball averaged 97.1 mph last year, which is encouraging since he underwent Tommy John surgery in 2018. He hasn’t had a full, normal season since 2017, when he logged a 3.86 ERA as a 23-year-old rookie. He had been serving as the Angels’ closer before he landed on the injured list the following year. He throws a fastball, slider and change-up, and Mike Clevinger, his former minor-league teammate, used to talk him up as the league’s next great relief ace.

Hansel Robles: This would be a classic case of a team confident in its pitching evaluation identifying what ailed a guy the previous season and attempting to correct those issues to help him recapture his old form. And what better candidate for a rise from the dead than a guy who enters to the Undertaker’s theme music? Robles surrendered as many runs in 16 2/3 innings in 2020 as he did in 72 2/3 innings in 2019. His fastball velocity plummeted to 95.4 mph from 97.2 mph, and hitters feasted on the pitch (.355 average, .742 slugging percentage). The result: a 10.26 ERA in 18 appearances and some ugly underlying metrics. Angels pitching coach Mickey Callaway suggested that the lack of fans in the ballpark may have sapped Robles of his adrenaline, causing the decrease in velocity and the unsightly statistics. Could Callaway’s old coaching cohorts fix the 30-year-old righty?

Carl Edwards Jr.: Edwards owns a 3.54 ERA across parts of six big-league seasons, with a 3.32 FIP and 12.1 strikeouts per nine innings. His career walk rate is a bit high (five per nine innings), but he has limited the opposition to a .156 average and a .262 slugging percentage. His fastball sits in the 93-94 mph range and carries an elite spin rate (98th percentile in 2019). The former 48th-round draft pick turned 29 in September. He missed much of the 2020 season with a forearm strain.

Archie Bradley: He allowed a bunch of hard contact in 2020, and his fastball velocity dipped 1.4 mph, but the former seventh overall pick is only 28 and was an effective reliever for Arizona from 2017-19. Bradley will likely receive interest from a host of teams, which could spark a bidding war and eliminate the Indians from pursuing him. He boasts a 2.95 ERA over the last four years, with nearly 10 strikeouts per nine innings. MLB Trade Rumors had projected his 2021 salary, via arbitration, to sit somewhere between $4.3-5.7 million before the Reds non-tendered him.

Chaz Roe: The 34-year-old missed most of 2020 because of an arm injury, but he has logged a 3.54 ERA with the Rays over the last four seasons, with 10.5 strikeouts per nine innings. In each of those four seasons, he has thrown his slider more than 50 percent of the time. As a result, he has limited hard contact at an elite rate.

Chris Devenski: On the surface, a guy with a 3.35 ERA and healthy walk and strikeout rates in five major-league seasons would be a target for any team. But Devenski’s numbers — ERA, FIP, WHIP, hit rate — have worsened every year since he finished fourth in the AL Rookie of the Year balloting in 2016. He underwent surgery to remove a bone spur in his elbow in September, which might explain why his velocity plunged in 2020. There’s a bunch of uncertainty here. Because of his recent struggles and injury issues, it could be a low-risk, solid-reward type of investment.

Pedro Baez has been a consistent force in the Dodgers’ bullpen for years and will likely command a multi-year deal. He registered a 3.03 ERA in seven years with Los Angeles and boasts brilliant metrics. Brad Peacock is an intriguing option as a swingman who recorded a 3.48 ERA for Houston from 2016-19, though he underwent arthroscopic shoulder surgery in early October. Keone Kela missed nearly the entirety of the 2020 season, but he’s only 27, throws hard and owns a 3.24 ERA with 11 strikeouts per nine innings and a .202 opponent average in six big-league seasons. Brandon Workman struggled mightily in 2020, but he was sensational as Boston’s relief ace in 2019 (.433 opponent OPS).

The Indians don’t have a steady lefty at the moment, and 31-year-olds José Álvarez and Luis Avilán have been exactly that throughout their careers, with Álvarez posting a 3.32 ERA since 2015 and Avilán recording a career mark of 3.30. Jeremy Jeffress posted a 1.54 ERA in 2020 for the Cubs, though underlying metrics — he allowed a ton of hard contact, which contributed to an Expected ERA of 4.71 — suggest he might not have flourished in a larger sample. Tommy Kahnle could land a two-year deal, even though he’s expected to miss most or all of the 2021 season after undergoing Tommy John surgery. Cam Bedrosian owns a 3.70 ERA, with more than a strikeout per inning in his seven seasons with the Angels. Brad Boxberger has been a strikeout machine for the last nine seasons, though he’s prone to walk a decent number of hitters, too.

I do not think the Indians will sign any "valuable" free agents at all !

The new minor-league affiliates of all 30 MLB teams, explained


By The Athletic MLB Staff Dec 9, 2020 148
The restructuring of the minor leagues came into greater focus on Wednesday as teams across Major League Baseball announced they had extended invitations to 119 minor-league teams, with only the Rockies’ Low A team left to be decided.

Those teams have only been offered spots in the new restructured minor league system; some teams may not accept these invitations, as Evan Drellich explained last week.

Here are the minor-league teams that were announced as receiving invitations on Wednesday:

2021 Minor League invitations
Arizona Diamondbacks
Reno
Amarillo
Hillsboro
Visalia
Atlanta Braves
Gwinnett
Mississippi
Rome
Augusta
Baltimore Orioles
Norfolk
Bowie
Aberdeen
Delmarva
Boston Red Sox
Worcester
Portland
Greenville
Salem
Chicago White Sox
Charlotte
Birmingham
Winston-Salem
Kannapolis
Chicago Cubs
Iowa
Tennessee
South Bend
Myrtle Beach
Cincinnati Reds
Louisville
Chattanooga
Dayton
Daytona
Cleveland Indians
Columbus
Akron
Lake County
Lynchburg
Colorado Rockies
Albuquerque
Hartford
Spokane
TBD
Detroit Tigers
Toledo
Erie
West Michigan
Lakeland
Houston Astros
Sugar Land
Corpus Christi
Asheville
Fayetteville
Kansas City Royals
Omaha
Northwest Arkansas
Quad Cities
Columbia, S.C.
Los Angeles Angels
Salt Lake
Rocket City
Tri-City
Inland Empire
Los Angeles Dodgers
Oklahoma City
Tulsa
Great Lakes
Rancho Cucamonga
Miami Marlins
Jacksonville
Pensacola
Beloit
Jupiter
Milwaukee Brewers
Nashville
Biloxi
Wisconsin
Carolina
Minnesota Twins
St. Paul
Wichita
Cedar Rapids
Fort Myers
New York Yankees
Scranton
Somerset
Hudson Valley
Tampa
New York Mets
Syracuse
Binghamton
Brooklyn
St. Lucie
Oakland Athletics
Las Vegas
Midland
Lansing
Stockton
Philadelphia Phillies
Lehigh Valley
Reading
Jersey Shore
Clearwater
Pittsburgh Pirates
Indianapolis
Altoona
Greensboro
Bradenton
San Diego Padres
El Paso
San Antonio
Fort Wayne
Lake Elsinore
San Francisco Giants
Sacramento
Richmond
Eugene
San Jose
Seattle Mariners
Tacoma
Arkansas
Everett
Modesto
St. Louis Cardinals
Memphis
Springfield
Peoria
Palm Beach
Tampa Bay Rays
Durham
Montgomery
Bowling Green
Charleston
Texas Rangers
Round Rock
Frisco
Hickory
Down East
Toronto Blue Jays
Buffalo
New Hampshire
Vancouver
Dunedin
Washington Nationals
Rochester
Harrisburg
Wilmington
Fredericksburg
What does it mean for your major-league team? Let us explain:

Arizona Diamondbacks
The Diamondbacks didn’t do too much shuffling; three of their four affiliates are ones with whom they’ve had long-standing relationships. They retained the Reno (Nev.) Aces as their Triple-A team and remain affiliated with the Visalia (Calif.) Rawhide, which moves from High A to Low A. Their short-season team was the Hillsboro (Ore.) Hops, a gem of the Northwest League and now Arizona’s High-A club. The biggest change is at the Double-A level, where the Diamondbacks once were schlepping prospects back and forth from the West Coast to Jackson, Tenn., now they must ship them only as far as Amarillo, Texas. (Go Sod Poodles.) That should also help pitchers adjust to the thin air of Reno, as Amarillo enjoys a much more similar climate to Nevada than Tennessee. — Zach Buchanan

Atlanta Braves
The Braves’ Double-A Mississippi and Triple-A Gwinnett (Ga.) affiliates remain unchanged, while their Low-A Rome (Ga.) affiliate moves up a notch to High A, replacing the defunct Florida State League affiliate. Rome had been Low A since 2003. The newcomer to the organization is the Augusta (Ga.) GreenJackets, which becomes the Low-A affiliate. The GreenJackets, the only one of the four affiliates not owned by the Braves, began operations in 1988 and play in a ballpark built in 2018 across the Savannah River on the South Carolina side of the border with Georgia. The Danville (Virginia) advanced short-season rookie league team is affiliated no more, but will continue in the Appalachian League, which is to become a college wood-bat league. The Braves now have three of their four minor league affiliates in Georgia, though technically Augusta plays in South Carolina. — David O’Brien

Baltimore Orioles
The Orioles maintain four of their top affiliates, with the former Short-Season-A Aberdeen (Md.) IronBirds moving up to High A, replacing the Frederick (Md.) Keys. The other three affiliates — Triple-A Norfolk (Va.), Double-A Bowie (Md.) and Low-A Delmarva (Md.) — remain the same and keep the strong regional presence of the Orioles’ minor-league system intact. It’s a blow, however, to the rabid Orioles fan base in Frederick to lose that connection, which has been unbroken since 1989. But quaint Harry Grove Stadium will still have baseball this summer as Frederick joins the MLB Draft League. Frederick was on the initial list of contracted teams, so this is a solid scenario, although there was some thought the Washington Nationals might pick up the affiliation. — Dan Connolly

Boston Red Sox
The Red Sox’ four full-season affiliates are remaining the same, with the exception of the previously agreed-upon move of Triple A from Pawtucket, R.I. to Worcester, Mass. Boston’s short-season affiliate the Lowell (Mass.) Spinners of the New York-Penn League will no longer be affiliated with the team. In a statement the Red Sox said they are working with the City of Lowell to keep baseball in the community, “evaluating various opportunities for the 2021 season, and will continue to discuss longer-term options in the weeks ahead.” — Jen McCaffrey

Chicago White Sox
More like the Status Quo Sox. The general club approach has been to wait out the shelling between MLB and MiLB and then return to the strong relationships they have enjoyed with their affiliates, all of whom they have held association with for the past two decades. Player development director Chris Getz even went on the record earlier this year saying he hoped to keep the Great Falls (Mont.) Voyagers in the now-independent Pioneer League, where he himself played back in 2005. Larger league machinations kept that from happening, and that seemed to be the only thing that could have caused the White Sox to alter any of their affiliates. — James Fegan

Chicago Cubs
The changes for the Cubs were quite minimal. The Iowa Cubs have been the team’s Triple-A affiliate since 1981 and will remain as such and the Tennessee Smokies will enter their 15th season as the team’s Double-A affiliate. South Bend (Ind.) and Myrtle Beach (S.C.) remain affiliated with the Cubs, but the two will flip-flop levels as South Bend jumps to High A and the Pelicans drop to Low A. One potential benefit of this change is that younger players who have recently come over from Latin American countries won’t be forced to deal with the often brutally cold Aprils in northern Indiana. They can ease into full-season baseball in the warmer climes of South Carolina before learning what it’s like in the Midwest early in the season. — Sahadev Sharma

Cincinnati Reds
Despite the changes elsewhere, the Reds’ affiliates remain relatively constant, aside from the loss of the two advanced rookie-level teams, the Billings (Mont.) Mustangs and the Greeneville (Tenn.) Reds. Dayton and Daytona flip-flop levels, with Dayton taking over as the High-A team and Daytona the Low-A team. That should help younger players from countries with warmer climates acclimate to life in the United States with their first introductions to living here coming in April in Florida rather than April in Ohio. All four teams had been Reds affiliates since at least 2019, when Chattanooga (Tenn.) rejoined the Reds organization, having previously served as a Reds affiliate from 1988 to 2008. Billings had been the team’s longest continuous affiliate, having served as a Reds farm team since 1974. Both Chattanooga and Daytona had been rumored to be on the chopping block, but the Reds were happy with both organizations and liked the locations and ownership groups and were pleased to retain them. — C. Trent Rosecrans

Cleveland Indians
The Indians lost the short-season Mahoning Valley Scrappers in nearby Niles, Ohio, which will become one of six teams in the new MLB Draft League. Their four remaining affiliates are all the same (and mostly close to home): Triple-A Columbus, Double-A Akron, High-A Lake County (Ohio) and Low-A Lynchburg (Va.). Lake County and Lynchburg are switching levels. — Zack Meisel

Colorado Rockies
The Rockies kept the nearby Albuquerque (N.M.) Isotopes as their Triple-A team and the far-away Hartford (Conn.) Yard Goats in Double A. But they switched High-A teams, from the Lancaster (Calif.) JetHawks to the Spokane (Wash.) Indians. Spokane will jump up from being the Rangers’ short-season A team. And the Asheville (N.C.) Tourists, the Rockies’ only remaining original farm team from 1994, will now belong to the Astros. Instead, MLB sent an invite to the Fresno (Calif.) Grizzlies to become Colorado’s Single-A team, a severe demotion from Fresno’s spot in the Triple-A Pacific Coast League. That affiliation, though, is still pending. If it goes through, the Lancaster JetHawks would become an independent team. The Rockies also lost the Low-A Boise (Idaho) Hawks and rookie-level Grand Junction (Colo.) Rockies, who both will go independent. — Nick Groke

Detroit Tigers
The Norwich (Conn.) Sea Unicorns of the short-season New York-Penn League are no more, but otherwise, not much has changed. The Tigers will swap Low-A and High-A affiliates, with the West Michigan Whitecaps moving up to High A and the Lakeland (Fla.) Flying Tigers going down to Low A. The Tigers also retained their Double-A affiliate in Erie, Pa., once at risk of being contracted. After big upgrades to UPMC Park, the SeaWolves will remain the Tigers’ Double-A club and could host some talented rosters in the next couple of seasons. — Cody Stavenhagen

Houston Astros
The Astros’ minor-league structure looks a lot different under the new format. The biggest change is at Triple A, where they swapped Round Rock for Sugar Land, which is only a 22-mile drive from Minute Maid Park. Their High-A Fayetteville (N.C.) affiliate will now be their Low-A affiliate, with Asheville (N.C.) coming over from the Rockies to be the Astros’ new High-A affiliate. Their previous Low-A team, Quad Cities (Iowa), ascended a level to High A and went over to the Royals, and short-season Tri-City (N.Y.) lost affiliation. Double-A Corpus Christi (Texas) is really the only constant for Houston. — Jake Kaplan

Kansas City Royals
The Royals gained an affiliate with a Ferris wheel beyond the fence, but before we assess what the addition of High-A Quad Cities (Iowa) will mean, it’s important to address what the Royals lost. The Wilmington (Del.) Blue Rocks had been the Royals’ High-A affiliate since 2007. It’s where members of the Royals’ World Series-winning team grew up, and where players such as Yordano Ventura introduced himself. That club, along with what had been Low-A Lexington (Ky.) and short-season Idaho Falls and Burlington (Vt.), is no longer an affiliate. The Royals picked up the Quad Cities River Bandits as well as Columbia, S.C., as their Low-A affiliate. They retained Triple-A Omaha (Neb.) and Double-A Northwest Arkansas, two stalwart affiliates for many years. — Alec Lewis

Los Angeles Angels
The Double-A Rocket City (Ala.) Trash Pandas, owners of perhaps the most interesting mascot in the minors, will remain an Angels affiliate through at least 2030 after their debut season was canceled this year. Salt Lake (Utah) remains as the club’s longtime Triple-A affiliate, and Inland Empire (Calif.) shifts down from High A to Low A. The Tri-City (Wash.) Dust Devils will join the Angels’ list of affiliates at High A in a partnership through 2030. The Angels lost both full-season Low-A Burlington (Iowa) and short-season rookie-level Orem (Utah), the latter of which will be part of the MLB partner independent Pioneer League. — Fabian Ardaya

Los Angeles Dodgers
The short-season Ogden (Utah) Raptors are no more, but the Dodgers are not losing any of their full-season affiliates. The largest change they made is a switch: Low-A Great Lakes (Mich.) will become High-A Great Lakes; High-A Rancho Cucamonga (Calif.) will become Low-A Rancho Cucamonga. The Dodgers’ Double- and Triple-A affiliates remain quite far from Los Angeles, but they have the benefit of being near each other, in Tulsa and Oklahoma City. — Pedro Moura

Miami Marlins
If the Marlins don’t get to completely stay in the state of Florida, they at least get to stay with the aquatic theme among their minor-league teams — the Triple-A Jacksonville (Fla.) Jumbo Shrimp, the Double-A Pensacola (Fla.) Blue Wahoos, the High-A Beloit (Wisc.) Snappers and the Low-A Jupiter (Fla.) Hammerheads. The Snappers are owned by Quint Studer, who also owns the Blue Wahoos. The team, an A’s affiliate from 2013 to 2020, is scheduled to open a new stadium in the summer of 2021, but also plan to change their name, perhaps killing the aquatic theme. — C. Trent Rosecrans

Milwaukee Brewers
The Brewers’ Triple-A affiliate will now be the Nashville (Tenn.) Sounds. Not only is Nashville a closer and better location than San Antonio, but this is a reunion of a partnership, too. Nashville previously served as the team’s Triple-A affiliate from 2005-14, winning the Pacific Coast League championship in 2005. The Brewers also made a change to their lower levels: Wisconsin is now High A and Carolina is Low A. The Brewers are pleased with keeping both; they own the (North) Carolina Mudcats and obviously enjoy having the Timber Rattlers in the state. Biloxi (Miss.) remains as the Double-A affiliate. — Will Sammon

Minnesota Twins
The announcement brought major changes to the organization, as the Twins’ new Triple-A affiliate will be housed just across the river in St. Paul instead of in upstate New York. Long the darlings of indy baseball, the St. Paul Saints are replacing the Rochester Red Wings, a move that offers the Twins flexibility when making last-minute roster changes and another avenue to promote their players within the market. The team also has a new affiliate at Double-A Wichita (Kan.) after losing Pensacola (Fla.) to the Marlins, and retained its affiliations with Cedar Rapids (Iowa) and Fort Myers (Fla.). — Dan Hayes

New York Yankees
The Yankees moved their High-A affiliate from Charleston (S.C.) to the Hudson Valley (N.Y.), their Double-A affiliate from Trenton to Somerset, N.J., and they left the short-season Staten Island (N.Y.) Yankees entirely. The Triple-A team will remain in Scranton, Penn. The realignment puts all of their affiliates — except for Single-A Tampa (Fla.) — within a couple of hours of one another by car. This is expected to make it easier to get players from one affiliate to another and centralizes the farm system for the roving directors and instructors in player development. It’s been something of an ugly process for the Yankees: the SI Yankees filed a lawsuit against the Yankees and MLB on the basis of “false promises,” and an owner of the Trenton Thunder alleged through the media that the Yankees had left under “false pretenses.” — Lindsey Adler

New York Mets
The Mets’ most important move with an affiliate came last season when they finally got out of the travel hell of the Pacific Coast League and got back to the International League in Syracuse, N.Y. (by buying the team). Binghamton (N.Y.), initially reported to be on the minor-league chopping block earlier this year, managed to keep the affiliate in the Eastern League. The move up comes from Brooklyn, previously a short-season team in the New York-Penn League, and now a full-season High-A squad in the new Mid-Atlantic League. What’s unknown, right now, is who else will be in that new league. Five teams fit geographically, but not mathematically in a sport with games every day. The St. Lucie (Fla.) Mets, who operate out of the club’s renovated spring training facilities, have moved along with the rest of the Florida State League from High A to Low A. — Tim Britton

Oakland A’s
The A’s will be retaining three of their four full-season affiliates from 2020, with Las Vegas set to return as a Triple-A affiliate, Midland (Texas) to return as a Double-A affiliate and Stockton (Calif.) becoming the organization’s new Low-A affiliate after a long relationship as their High-A team. The Lansing (Mich.) Lugnuts will be the new High-A affiliate. The A’s previously had a Midwest League affiliation with Beloit (Wisc.). The team is losing its short-season affiliate, the Vermont Lake Monsters, with the elimination of the New York-Penn League. — Melissa Lockard

Philadelphia Phillies
The Phillies’ partial ownership stake in three of their minor-league affiliates eliminated most of their potential drama surrounding the reshuffling. In-state Lehigh Valley and Reading remain Triple-A and Double-A affiliates, respectively. The main switch features the Jersey Shore (N.J.) BlueClaws and Clearwater (Fla.) Threshers. The BlueClaws bump up a level and are now a High-A team while the Threshers, which play in the stadium next to the Phillies’ minor-league complex, become the organization’s Low-A team. The Phillies lost their Williamsport (Pa.) Crosscutters affiliate, previously a rookie ball team in the New York-Penn League. Instead, the Crosscutters are part of the new MLB Draft League. The Phillies’ three highest levels feature convenient 1 1/2 to 2-hour drives from Philadelphia, a continuing perk of their minor-league setup. — Meghan Montemurro

Pittsburgh Pirates
The club retained its top four affiliates, although two of them swapped levels. Bradenton (Fla.) (which is owned by the Pirates) will drop to Low A; Greensboro (N.C.) moves to High A. Indianapolis has been the Pirates’ Triple-A affiliate since 2005. Altoona, which is about a two-hour drive from Pittsburgh, remains the Double-A team. — Rob Biertempfel

San Diego Padres
The Padres will keep three of their most recent full-season affiliations, with some notable shuffling. While El Paso (Texas) returns as the Triple-A affiliate, Fort Wayne (Ind.) will become San Diego’s High-A club, swapping levels with Lake Elsinore (Calif.), the new Low-A stop. At the Double-A level, the Padres are reuniting with San Antonio after a two-year partnership with Amarillo (Texas); San Antonio had been the Padres’ Double-A location from 2007 through 2018. Tri-City (Wa.), formerly the Padres’ affiliate in the short-season Northwest League, is expected to become the Angels’ High-A club. — Dennis Lin

San Francisco Giants
The Giants will retain three of their four full-season affiliates, with Sacramento staying on as the Triple-A affiliate, Richmond (Va.) remaining as the Double-A affiliate and San Jose staying on as the new Low-A affiliate. The team’s new High-A affiliate will be Eugene (Ore.), replacing their previous Northwest League affiliate, the Salem-Keizer (Ore.) Volcanoes. — Melissa Lockard

Seattle Mariners
No surprises. Seattle will retain its three full-season affiliates — Triple-A Tacoma, Double-A Arkansas and Single-A Modesto (Calif.). Notable changes are that short-season Everett (Wash.) is now a full-season affiliate with Modesto now Low A. Everett, which is located 30 minutes north of Seattle, will allow the Mariners’ brass a much easier in-person look at the team’s top prospects that pass through there than the remote outpost of Modesto. The Mariners now have two full-season affiliates (Tacoma is the other) within a 30-40 minute drive — insert Seattle-area traffic jokes — of T-Mobile Park. — Corey Brock

St. Louis Cardinals
The Cardinals outright own their teams in Springfield (Mo.) and Palm Beach (Fla.) and have a stake in Memphis (Tenn.), so it’s no surprise that their four affiliates remain the same. The only difference in the four teams will be the flip-flop of the Florida team to Low A and Peoria (Ill.) now the High-A affiliate. — C. Trent Rosecrans

Tampa Bay Rays
The Rays will continue to have the Durham (N.C.) Bulls and Montgomery (Ala.) Biscuits as their Triple-A and Double-A affiliates, respectively. Bowling Green (Ky.), formerly a Low-A affiliate, moves up to High A, while the Charleston (S.C.) RiverDogs, previously with the Yankees, will become the team’s new Low-A affiliate. Those changes mean the Rays lose their full-season team in Port Charlotte, which had played in the Florida State League since 2007. Port Charlotte will remain the Rays spring training base and host to their Gulf Coast League rookie-league team, but the moves mean the Rays no longer have a full-season affiliate in the state of Florida. — Kaitlyn McGrath

Texas Rangers
“All my exes live in Texas,” George Strait once sang. “And that’s why I hang my hat in Tennessee.” Maybe it was one too many midnight margaritas, or perhaps it was, you know, the complete and utter collapse of the agreement between MiLB and MLB, but the Rangers have reunited with their erstwhile (2011-18) Triple-A partners in Round Rock (Texas), leaving Nashville to sing the tune of a different George. The Rangers’ Double-A partnership with Frisco (Texas) will remain intact, which makes perfect sense, given their proximity. Meanwhile, like a few other teams, Texas pulled a flip-flop between their High-A and Low-A teams: Hickory (N.C.) gets the promotion to High A while the Down East (N.C.) Wood Ducks find themselves in Low A. — Levi Weaver

Toronto Blue Jays
The good news is Toronto retains the Vancouver Canadians as an affiliate, albeit now at the High-A level rather than short-season Class A. There was speculation they could lose the affiliation, although Blue Jays president Mark Shapiro previously shot down those rumours. The Canadians have been a successful franchise, and keeping the team within the organization was important for patriotic reasons, even if the commute from British Columbia to any of their other affiliates is a trek. In a release, the Blue Jays said “the club takes great pride in maintaining a west coast presence, introducing future Blue Jays players to Canadian fans, and helping grow the game nationally.” Other changes include Dunedin (Fla.), formerly High A, moving down to Low A. With the club’s U.S. operations and new training complex there, it’s a logical place to have players begin their pro careers. The Buffalo (N.Y.) Bisons (Triple A) and New Hampshire Fisher Cats (Double A) stay put, but the club loses former Low-A affiliate Lansing (Mich.) Lugnuts, who are invited to join the A’s, and the rookie ball Bluefield (Va./W.V.) Blue Jays, formerly of the Appalachian League that’s being converted to a collegiate summer league. — Kaitlyn McGrath

Washington Nationals
The big surprise here is the addition of Wilmington (Del.), formerly a Royals affiliate, which will serve as the Nats’ new High-A club. Fredericksburg (Va.), previously slated for High A, will shift its new facility to Low A for its inaugural season in 2021. Rochester (N.Y.) is another newcomer for Washington and will be a much smoother promotion than their previous Triple-A team was in Fresno, Calif. — Brittany Ghiroli

(Top photo of the Rancho Cucamonga Quakes ballpark: Chris Williams / Icon Sportswire via Getty Images)

Trying to make up for my earlier error !

Exploring a potential Francisco Lindor trade between the Indians and Blue Jays


By Zack Meisel and Kaitlyn McGrath 4h ago 31


Francisco Lindor remains the Cleveland Indians’ most valuable trade chip this winter. But, for as long as his name has swirled in trade rumors, finding the right landing spot for the All-Star shortstop has proven to be a difficult task.

One team that has been regularly linked to Lindor is the Toronto Blue Jays. There is the obvious connection between the teams, with former Indians executives Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins now running the organization. But, Toronto has also made a concerted effort to be aggressive this offseason, seemingly in on every major free agent and leaving no stone unturned in pursuit of transforming their budding, young roster into a perennial contender.

Do the Indians have enough leverage to make a deal happen? And are the Blue Jays interested enough in Lindor? Let’s explore all the angles with Kaitlyn McGrath in Toronto and Zack Meisel in Cleveland.

Meisel: Lindor checks every box as the face of a franchise. He plays a premium position and does so at a Gold Glove level (he’s captured two of those awards). He can hit for average or flex his power muscles, bat leadoff or occupy a spot in the middle of the order. He has grown into a leadership role in recent years. He’s bilingual, intelligent, personable and always smiling and chatting. He’s everything every general manager, marketing director and paying customer would covet.

And yet, this doesn’t have the feeling of that traditional trade of a franchise cornerstone. Maybe that’s because it has been a foregone conclusion for at least a year that the Indians would be parting ways with their shortstop before he reaches free agency. Maybe it’s because Lindor just submitted a somewhat pedestrian season in an abnormal year, and he never got that final farewell from the Cleveland faithful who watched him blossom over the last decade.

The Indians don’t have much leverage here. They’d prefer not to pay Lindor his projected $20 million salary. They’d prefer to acquire some young talent that can help them for years, rather than watch Lindor play out his final year in Cleveland. And everyone in the Milky Way knows the Indians’ chances of striking a long-term agreement with Lindor are infinitesimal.

So, this seems to be a rare occasion in which the team with the superstar player appears to be desperate, and the pandemic-influenced conditions of this offseason only complicate Cleveland’s plans. Rentals, even ones with perennial All-Star ability, aren’t as valuable as they used to be.

The Indians need a helpful, willing trade partner. Ah, look, a couple of familiar faces. Hello, Mark and Ross.

McGrath: The Blue Jays have been eager to do some business this offseason. They’ve been linked to nearly every major free agent, and they’ve made it clear they’re looking to add a high-impact player or two to bolster their young, enticing core.

Lindor fits that description. As you said, he does everything well and he would immediately make their team better — if they could also add a starter, maybe even good enough to take them from playoff contender to World Series contender.

But the Blue Jays don’t need Lindor. They would like him, sure. He would be great to have. But, the Blue Jays aren’t the desperate ones in this arrangement. They currently have a potential future franchise player at shortstop in Bo Bichette. While he’s not the elite fielder Lindor is, Atkins has expressed confidence that sooner than later, we’ll be talking about Bichette as a Gold Glove candidate. And in a small sample, Bichette has impressed with his bat.

If Lindor was acquired, though, Bichette would likely move to second or third base. He wouldn’t love doing it, but, for an elite talent like Lindor, he would for the sake of the team.

Another factor — and what makes this trade tricky — is that Lindor is set to be a free agent after the 2021 season, and the Blue Jays aren’t going to be interested in a rental. Not at this stage of their rebuild. If these trade talks are going to get serious, an extension is going to have to be on the table.

But the Blue Jays are listening. So, first things first, what’s it going to take to acquire Lindor?


Blue Jays youngster Cavan Biggio would be very appealing to the Indians as part of a deal for Francisco Lindor. (Gregory Fisher / USA Today)
Meisel: Youth. The Indians have immediate needs in the infield and outfield, but they are open to a variety of solutions in a deal like this … as long as the players they are receiving haven’t already burned through a bunch of service time. The Indians are in this weird “we swear we aren’t rebuilding, but we’re going to roll out a roster full of 24-year-olds and a payroll in the $50 million range, but we still plan to contend” transitional phase.

The most sensible package would involve at least one position player who has a bit of major-league experience, has proven he can hit and isn’t close to reaching free agency, and then a prospect or two of any type. Teoscar Hernández, Lourdes Gurriel Jr., and Cavan Biggio would all pique Cleveland’s interest. My instincts tell me the Indians would prioritize the latter two. Toronto’s farm system is equipped with the pieces to round out a deal centered on any of those guys.

McGrath: Who the Blue Jays would be willing to part with may depend on who they end up signing this offseason. But, of the three names you mentioned, the Blue Jays really like Biggio, both for his on-field versatility and intangible values. Hernández and Gurriel are moveable for the right price. Since Gurriel is younger, isn’t a free agent until after the 2024 season and is locked into an affordable contract for three more years, he’s probably the more attractive piece. So, let’s centre a potential deal around Gurriel. Which Toronto prospects do you like?

Meisel: Jordan Groshans, Simeon Woods Richardson, Adam Kloffenstein, Alejandro Kirk and Gabriel Moreno would all appeal to the Indians (and most teams — boy, do the Blue Jays have some fun pieces in their farm system). Cleveland’s system is filled with 19-year-old middle infielders, and they sprout capable starting pitchers by the bushel, though I don’t think either fact would keep them from acquiring more of each. That said, Kirk or Moreno could be a target because the only catcher with promise in their pipeline is Bo Naylor, and he has some critical development remaining before he convinces the club he’ll be the long-term solution behind the plate once Roberto Pérez’s tenure ends.

Much, obviously, hinges on Lindor’s potential willingness to sign a long-term extension — or Toronto’s confidence that it could keep him north of the border. No one knows what Lindor’s magic number is; he told The Athletic during spring training that the Indians’ offers never reached $300 million. He also wouldn’t reveal whether that amount would seal the deal.

McGrath: Some of the players you mentioned — Groshans, Woods Richardson, Kirk — are liked a lot by the club, clearly, since they’re all top-10 prospects. But I think if we’re talking about a player like Lindor, the Blue Jays would have to be willing to part with some of their top young assets. And their system is likely strong enough that it can weather some subtractions.

If the Indians somehow lower their asking price and the acquisition cost is lowered, maybe the Blue Jays would be OK with this being a one-and-done agreement. But, I suspect Cleveland wants to maximize what it can get for Lindor. So, if the Blue Jays are parting with top prospects, they’ll want some certainty that Lindor would want to stick around with the Blue Jays.

As you said, we don’t know what amount Lindor is looking for, but we can probably guess $300 million is about right, at least aspirationally. The Blue Jays have never spent that kind of money. The closest comparison might be Vernon Wells $126 million extension in 2006.

Since we don’t know the dollar amount for certain, let me ask you another question you might be able to speculate on more deeply. Would Lindor even consider signing a long-term deal with a club like Toronto?

Meisel: He has stressed that he would sign for the right price, that he would love to spend the rest of his career in Cleveland. But we’re left to take him at his word on that. The truth is, no one knows but him and his agent. And maybe his dogs, Paco and Junior.

The two sides reignited contract talks during the spring, but my hunch is — and they’ll never admit to this — both parties entered into the conversation knowing they wouldn’t actually strike a deal.

There is one potential workaround here, though.

The Indians obviously want to maximize value. They would love to spark a bidding war for Lindor, but the league-wide financial ramifications of the pandemic and the fact that he’s a rental might make that a pipe dream. I think the Indians would prefer to aim higher than simply a few years of Gurriel for Lindor, even though Gurriel (a career .287/.327/.508 hitter) is a great fit for Cleveland.


Lourdes Gurriel Jr. is another Toronto player who Cleveland has been eyeing. The now 27-year-old hit .308 with 11 home runs and 33 RBIs in 2020. (David Butler II / USA Today)
Cleveland’s front office has been playing both the short and long game for a couple of years now, and they’ve prioritized quantity in their significant trades in recent years. They came away with six players in the Mike Clevinger deal and five in the Trevor Bauer trade. I don’t think they’ll obtain that many pieces in this situation, but to help their cause, they could attach a starting pitcher to Lindor.

The Indians have nine major league-ready starting pitchers at their disposal. In a vacuum, they would love to include Carlos Carrasco, since he’ll turn 34 in March and he’s due $12 million each of the next two seasons, with a $14 million club option for 2023 (or a $3 million buyout). But the human element makes it really difficult for the front office. Carrasco is the longest-tenured player in the organization. He was diagnosed with leukemia in 2019. He regularly visits the Cleveland Clinic, both for his own checkups and to brighten the days of everyone in the pediatric cancer ward. He means a lot to the clubhouse and, oh yeah, he’s also still a really good pitcher.

Carrasco is far from the only option, though. The Indians could include a younger starting pitcher. There are plenty from which the Blue Jays could choose. Might that sweeten the offer?

McGrath: This is interesting, and it would definitely sweeten the deal. If the Blue Jays go out and spend a lot on a position-player free agent, turning to the trade market to fill the hole at the top of their rotation could be their best option. Carrasco, an established arm, would fit nicely into the fold in Toronto, slotting in behind Hyun Jin Ryu as their No. 2 option.

But, acquiring a younger starter is also enticing, especially someone who could pair with Nate Pearson as the future studs of the rotation. The pitching factory that is Cleveland has a few options. Zach Plesac, 25, is interesting. He got in trouble off the field this year by breaching team curfew, but on the field, he had a tidy 2.28 ERA in eight starts. Aaron Civale, Triston McKenzie and Cal Quantrill (Canadian alert!) are all enticing options, too. That is, if Cleveland is willing to part with any of them, given that they’re all good and cheap.

Meisel: The Indians surely have their own internal pecking order, but each guy presents some uncertainty (through no fault of his own). The team hasn’t yet had a chance to sprinkle its starting-pitcher fairy dust on Quantrill. McKenzie broke onto the scene this season after two years of rehabbing injuries. Plesac pitched like a front-line starter in 2020, but as the old adage goes, an eight-game sample does not an ace make.

That doesn’t mean, however, that these clubs couldn’t find some common ground with the inclusion of a particular pitcher. And perhaps that will have to be part of the framework to compensate for the Blue Jays running the risk of Lindor leaving after 2021. Either way, I’d expect the Indians to ask for someone like Gurriel, plus one of the catching prospects and a second, promising youngster. The Indians have developed a reputation for making initial, lofty demands, though I’m not sure how well that’ll work when dealing with familiar front-office faces.

McGrath: It’s a good point about how friendly front offices might work well together — or not. There’s respect on both ends, but there is also the chance that each GM knows the other’s tricks. Optically, the Toronto front office also doesn’t want to be seen getting fleeced by their former club. (Because, believe it or not, some people here are still talking about the Josh Donaldson trade from 2018.) So, there are pros and cons to working together.

Whether it’s Lindor plus Carrasco or a younger arm, I agree that these clubs could find common ground. Gurriel is the cost of doing business. With their glut of catchers, the Blue Jays can part with one (perhaps Moreno as they may try to hold onto Kirk). If this trade could somehow get done without including Groshans, but instead a young pitcher like Woods Richardson or Kloffenstein, maybe it gains even more traction.

A lot also depends on what else the Blue Jays manage to do this offseason. If all their top-shelf free-agent targets sign elsewhere and they come up empty, maybe the urgency to acquire Lindor increases.

Still, I think this all hinges on whether they can get an idea of what an extension looks like and whether Lindor would consider Toronto a long-term home. Could the Blue Jays deal for him and hope he loves his 2021 season in Toronto — if they even play here, which is another factor — so much that he wants to stay? Sure. But they could also aggressively woo him, and he could still decide to leave to test the free-agent market and sign somewhere else. (Raptors fans know the feeling.) Alternatively, the Blue Jays could not trade for him now and hope to try and sign him if/when he becomes a free agent.

This is going to be a bit of an unsatisfactory conclusion, but until we see how the Blue Jays’ free-agent pursuits pan out, it’s difficult to gauge how serious their interest level is. And, even if they are interested, the next question is whether Toronto is trading for one year of Lindor or 10? We don’t know — and that’s why this trade is so difficult to project.

So Cleveland is going to drop the "Indians" logo. I am 100% against this.

If it has to happen there is only one name that could replace Indians.

CLEVELAND ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CLEVELAND ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CLEVELAND ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm still a Spiders fan.