Cleveland Sports Forum

'What have they won in Cleveland?' Mark Shapiro's
tenure in Toronto off to a dramatic start
11/3/2015 'What have they won in Cleveland?' Mark Shapiro's tenure in Toronto off to a dramatic start | cleveland.com


The Blue Jays opened the 2015 campaign with a payroll exceeding $125 million, about $40 million more than the Indians' budget.
Toronto added to that total as the season unfolded. Now, Shapiro and whoever takes over for Anthopoulos as GM will have to
decide on a direction for the franchise. Price and fellow starting pitcher Marco Estrada are eligible for free agency. Will Shapiro
oversee an operation that spends freely? Will Toronto's ownership approve? Or will the Blue Jays shift their philosophy to one
more in line with what Shapiro presided over with the Indians? Those two hurlers would be hiring Two Men and a Truck if this
situation was playing out in Cleveland.

Even the potential for the latter option has already frustrated Blue Jays fans, who packed the Rogers Centre this season. Toronto
finished eighth in the league in attendance, as the club drew at least 41,000 fans to the ballpark for each of its last 29 home
games, including the playoffs.

Shapiro spent nearly a quarter of a century in the Indians' front office. He joined the franchise near the tail end of its 40‑year
funk. The Indians broke their postseason spell in 1995, the start of a golden era of Tribe baseball. Will the Blue Jays follow a
similar pattern, or does Shapiro's arrival signal change?

No matter what the future holds for Toronto, it has been a dramatic start to Shapiro's tenure.

Thanks Buck 84.

Here is the link with more info:

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ss ... iro_3.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The instant Alex Anthopoulos rejected the Blue Jays' contract offer, the former Toronto general manager seemingly became a patron saint north of the border. On the other hand, Mark Shapiro, the Blue Jays' brand new bigwig, became a target for fan frustration.

The Blue Jays had long been a mediocre team, glued to third place in the American League East. Then, Anthopoulos tapped into his resource pool to acquire a handful of stars -- Josh Donaldson, David Price and Troy Tulowitzki -- to help terminate a 22-year postseason drought.

Toronto reached the AL Championship Series, but less than a week after the team fell short against Kansas City, the club had a vacancy at GM and much of the ire from the fan base was funneled toward the new guy in charge, the former Cleveland Indians executive.

Upon Anthopoulos' departure, columnist Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun wrote that he heard from a bevy of scouts, managers and GMs who all, in some fashion, said: "Huh?" Elliott even said one GM questioned Shapiro's track record with the Indians when assessing the situation in Toronto.

From Elliott's piece:

"What have they won in Cleveland? Have they won a World Series since 1948?" asked one puzzled GM on Thursday. "Have they won anything since Shapiro and Chris Antonetti took over? No, they have never won anything in Cleveland and they will never win anything in Cleveland because they overvalue prospects in a very dramatic way.

"They are worse to deal with than the Los Angeles Dodgers when every minor leaguer was going to be the NL rookie of the year. Shapiro probably doesn't like the fact that the Blue Jays went for it because they never go for it."

It remains to be seen precisely how Shapiro will operate his new franchise. The Indians did part with first-round draft selections Alex White and Drew Pomeranz in a trade for Ubaldo Jimenez in 2011. Shapiro declined to speak about his plans for the team when asked at the end of August during his farewell press conference at Progressive Field. There was a report that Shapiro "scolded" the Blue Jays' front office for trading away top prospects in his first meeting with the group, though Anthopoulos denied that such a confrontation ever happened. Shapiro officially began his new gig on Monday, though fans created petitions last week calling for him to lose his job and for Anthopoulos to be lured back to the front office.

The Indians captured the AL Central crown once from 2002-15. They marched to within one victory of a World Series berth in 2007 and made a three-hour postseason cameo in 2013. The club has ranked in the bottom third of the league in payroll each year since 2003. Drafting and trading well have been the organization's priorities, for better or worse.

The Blue Jays opened the 2015 campaign with a payroll exceeding $125 million, about $40 million more than the Indians' budget. Toronto added to that total as the season unfolded. Now, Shapiro and whoever takes over for Anthopoulos as GM will have to decide on a direction for the franchise. Price and fellow starting pitcher Marco Estrada are eligible for free agency. Will Shapiro oversee an operation that spends freely? Will Toronto's ownership approve? Or will the Blue Jays shift their philosophy to one more in line with what Shapiro presided over with the Indians? Those two hurlers would be hiring Two Men and a Truck if this situation was playing out in Cleveland.

Even the potential for the latter option has already frustrated Blue Jays fans, who packed the Rogers Centre this season. Toronto finished eighth in the league in attendance, as the club drew at least 41,000 fans to the ballpark for each of its last 29 home games, including the playoffs.

Shapiro spent nearly a quarter of a century in the Indians' front office. He joined the franchise near the tail end of its 40-year funk. The Indians broke their postseason spell in 1995, the start of a golden era of Tribe baseball. Will the Blue Jays follow a similar pattern, or does Shapiro's arrival signal change?

No matter what the future holds for Toronto, it has been a dramatic start to Shapiro's tenure.

Thanks,Civ. my computer is still not allowing me to cut and paste without problems.

Tribe declines Ryan Raburn's option. So he joins Aviles, Floyd and Ryan Webb as free agents. [Webb was about the most un-remarked upon players on the team. Pitched pretty well but sort of in the "a dime a dozen" way.] That opens spots on the roster to add back House and Hagadone from the 60-day DL and for a couple kids e.g Naquin and Clevinger.

Angels also declined option on David Murphy.

And Mark Reynolds elected free agency, so if we want a big right handed hitting bat we couldn't possibly find a better option that Mark, again. [Cut way back on his strikeouts, only 121 in 426 total appearances last season; when with Cleveland he whiffed 123 times in 378 total at bats]

Minor roster tweaks. As was obvious, Adam Moore is dumped. House and Hagadone added back from 60-day DL. 37 now on the 40 man roster with a couple highly expendable minor league free agent types still on board: Jerry Sands and Michael Martinez. If either of them stays the winter, that confirms the weakness of the top of the farm system.

The roster now:

Starting Pitchers [9]: The Big 6 plus House. Ryan Merritt has stayed in the rotation to his brief AAA promotion. Ditto Jayson Aquino but he's not made it yet past Class A.
Reliever: Righties [10]: Allen, Shaw, McAllister, Manquist, Adams, Armstrong, Lee. Lefties: Hagadone, Crockett, Soto.
Catchers [3]: Gomes, Perez and Tony Wolters [2 years in AA he's learned to catch but has forgotten how to hit]
IF Corners [4]: Santana, Aguilar at first; Chris Johnson on both sides of the infield; Urshela.
IF Middle [4]: Kipnis, Lindor, Ramirez, Erik Gonzalez.
Outfield [5]: Brantley, Almonte, Chisenhall, Sands, Michael Choice. UGH!
Utility everything [2]: Martinez, Zach Walters.

RH hitters: Gomes, Perez, Aguilar, Johnson, Urshela, Sands, Choice, Gonzalez
LH hitters: Brantley, Kipnis, Chisenhall, Wolters
Switch hitters: Santana, Lindor, Ramirez, Almonte, Martinez, Walters

The heavy surplus of left-handed hitters is gone. But the righties are still pretty weak.

Brantley undergoing surgery on his shoulder. Should be ready in "5 to 6 months", which means opening day if we're lucky, 40 games late if not. So the incredibly weak OF will be even weaker.

Tribe season has been over six weeks. Why the delay in the surgery.

He had a partial labral tear if I remember correctly. But anyway, he was told that he could possibly heal up with rehab so he went that route. But the discomfort continued so he had to do the surgery.

Martinez also, of course, designated and becomes a free agent. Roster down to 36.

There remain several very expendable players on the roster [in order of unimportance probably Sands, Wolters and Walters, or maybe Walters before Wolters, and the disappointing C.C. Lee] but unless they intend to sign lots of free agents and promote a lot of minor leaguers. In the latter category Naquin and Clevinger are the only obvious choices. I would guess that despite hitting below 250 James Ramsay will get the call.

I would consider Ronnie Rodriguez who could be a good hitting utility infielder [27 xb hits in 280 total at bats; but only 10 walks]; And there are some hard-throwing relievers who worked in Akron: Josh Martin and Jeff Johnson. And less likely Shawn Morimando a lefty whose stats are routinely good across the board except for too many walks.

Martinez rejects move to Columbus, elects free agency.