Cleveland Sports Forum

I missed a lot of the changes, because once they got behind, I fast forwarded like crazy. I'm not a masochist.

Yep, not enough hitters.

7 runs should be enough to win any game.

I didn't get to watch so I can't evaluate Jiminez very well. But there's no doubt that the Indians management vetted him carefully and they figured he'll be worth what they gave up.

Indians fans are pretty fickle.

How many here were ready to throw Carmona under the bus? Now he's giving some pretty good outings. How many here were ready to give Hafner away for nothing? Now he's a solid offensive threat when he can stay on the field. How many here ever figured our young pitchers here would become solid ML starters so quickly? (I put myself into the group that underestimated them).

So we had a disappointing series against the Tigers. We're still in striking range with plenty of season left, and the schedule does have some easier stretches coming up. We're in the race in late August, far from being eliminated.

Maybe we will fall short. Maybe not, maybe we go on a winning streak and catch fire right when it matters most. It could happen either way. Either way it will have been a very fun and entertaining season when it's all over.

I hate constant pessimism and negativity.

Husker please note that Fukodome has actually been a very valuable addition as I was advised yesterday:

Unbelievable, how many multi hit games has he had since he came to the Tribe ? Taking way too much abuse around here.

That would be 6 out of his 19 games and he has batted .320 in his last 25 at bats going into this game.

MtFan: you're right that it's very easy to dump a player when he's down, I certainly do it as well as anyone. Jiminez' immediate failures are just very disappointing -- when the trade was aimed at putting us over the top it will likely have the effect of putting us over the cliff. No reason to assume he won't be an important part of a very solid rotation in 2012-13. But that was a steep price to pay in longterm promise for what he expected reasonably to be immediate payoff.

civ ollilavad wrote:MtFan: you're right that it's very easy to dump a player when he's down, I certainly do it as well as anyone. Jiminez' immediate failures are just very disappointing -- when the trade was aimed at putting us over the top it will likely have the effect of putting us over the cliff. No reason to assume he won't be an important part of a very solid rotation in 2012-13. But that was a steep price to pay in longterm promise for what he expected reasonably to be immediate payoff.

"Putting us over the cliff"--well, maybe and maybe not. If Jimenez wasn't here, someone else would be, and that someone else would probably be Mitch Talbot or McAllister. Any guarantee those guys would have done any better so far?

I still think the Indians can get back into this, but it would require them to get seriously hot during this homestand coming up--something like 9-2. But they haven't been able to run off anything like that in months, and the last long homestand they had at the end of July was a disaster. I would bet that the Indians have been one of the worst home teams in baseball since June 1.

The worst thing about the early returns on the Jimenez trade is that it's going to make the Indians totally gunshy in future years when it comes to trading prospects for veterans--and as anyone here can say, trading veterans for prospects is no guarantee of success either.

Delmon Young was a good pickup for Detroit for almost nothing.

But that was a steep price to pay in longterm promise for what he expected reasonably to be immediate payoff.

No one has any idea what price the Indians actually paid for Jiminez. Just last year Joe Z said the Indians should have drafted Chris Sale over Pomeranz. Many think White will end up in the bullpen long term. Let's give him a chance to settle down.

Donald should start as many games as possible. Not just against left handers. C'mon Manny, stop going by the book.

Fukudome gets his 7th multi hit game in his 21 tribe games so far.

MtFan wrote:7 runs should be enough to win any game.

I didn't get to watch so I can't evaluate Jiminez very well. But there's no doubt that the Indians management vetted him carefully and they figured he'll be worth what they gave up.

Indians fans are pretty fickle.

How many here were ready to throw Carmona under the bus? Now he's giving some pretty good outings. How many here were ready to give Hafner away for nothing? Now he's a solid offensive threat when he can stay on the field. How many here ever figured our young pitchers here would become solid ML starters so quickly? (I put myself into the group that underestimated them).

So we had a disappointing series against the Tigers. We're still in striking range with plenty of season left, and the schedule does have some easier stretches coming up. We're in the race in late August, far from being eliminated.

Maybe we will fall short. Maybe not, maybe we go on a winning streak and catch fire right when it matters most. It could happen either way. Either way it will have been a very fun and entertaining season when it's all over.

I hate constant pessimism and negativity.

A valid point regarding Carmona, MtFan. I was one that suggested not picking up his option earlier in the season. Hafner on the other hand I'd still give away for nothing if anyone would take him. Statistically he is Matt LaPorta with a better batting average and can't play a defensive position. Along with Sizemore I think they are replaceable.

Yes I understand that the AL Central is weak and that they are contenders but, the front office seem to be placing a lot of faith on a hitting lineup that quite frankly do not deserve it.

I`m still hoping that Jimenez will sort himself out over the long term but, when all is said and done I still think the Indians used up their best trading chips to get a final piece of the puzzle when it is several players short of being a good team.

I hope they can prove me wrong.

That was not a fun Cleveland Indians weekend, but we sure as heck are still very much in a pennant race in late August.

I lost my only two horse racing wagers this weekend, too.

On a positive note, I've mentioned that we are putting our California house on the market since demand has ticked up a bit in our neighborhood. Just to see what happens. My wife is greatly enthused about moving to The Southeast. We'll see.

When putting a house on the market in California these days, it is customary to "stage" it.


"Stage" means essentially "move all your fun stuff, personal furniture and clutter out" and let some artsy guys the realtor knows to come in and add some of their selected decor and then put up the "For Sale" sign.

I'm flowing with the plan.


About seven years ago, my wife and I were engaged in some passionate and raucous passion in our upstairs bedroom. I remember her saying that her hair was getting caught in my watch band so I undid the clasp and quickly got it out of the way.

To never be seen again.

My wife and I had/have both seen that Twilight Zone episode with the kid throwing the coin into the wall that apparently was a deep black hole. We've joked for years that a similar place must be the resting place of my watch.

We've literally searched high and low for it, including in clothes storage and many clothes drawers.


It was a gold and silver toned Seiko with an interesting gold and silver face. I had purchased it just a few weeks earlier. I really liked it.

Today as I moved our king sized bed and side dressers, I noted the sunlight through the open window had caught a glimmer of shiny something in the dusty wires behind where the bed had been.

I have my watch back.


I would have rather had an Indians victory this weekend.


We have four games in about 44 hours coming up. Let's win them all, and hope Detroit sucks a big one while we are winning.

I was driving my Mom home from having lunch with us and was listening to the MLB feed on the car radio when Jiminez gave up the 7 runs. The announcers were saying that he was throwing a lot of junk pitches instead of his fastball. Those of you that watched did he look injured?

Long term I think the Indians are in pretty good shape with a nice rotation and much bullpen depth. Good young infield and catching. Not enough big bats in the OF and I sure wish we could get beyond Hafner; this is now four or is it five years he's been in a "slump" or injured or both. I am expecting the team to be somewhat aggressive in the FA market for the first time in eons, since they've been aggressive in in-season trades, Latin signings and draft signings this year, and sign a RH OF this winter.

The announcers were saying that he was throwing a lot of junk pitches instead of his fastball.

Seems to be the problem. Would rather fool the hitter then trust his fastball.

He didn't look injured to me. He started off looking good. First 6 up and first 6 down, a couple K's. Hitting 94 on the gun. Wheels fell off. Honestly I don't remember if he started throwing more junk when he went to hell or not. If the announcers said so then may be, but wasn't cause he was hurt IMO.

Despite Ubaldo's struggles, the team showed that they could win the game yesterday. But the coaching staff foiled their efforts. I realize Acta wanted to save the bullpen, but it was obvious that Ubaldo was losing it. He stuck with him too long. And if anyone saw the last weak pop fly by LaPorta, you know it was not deep enough to send the runner from third. We should have had one more chance with two outs. Instead the game and series was suddenly over.

Indians looking to rebound against Mariners

By Zack Meisel / MLB.com | 8/21/2011 6:25 PM ET


As the Indians continue to fight for a playoff spot, Fausto Carmona appears to have regained his former postseason form.

In 2007, when the Indians fell one victory shy of a World Series appearance, Carmona posted a 19-8 record and 3.06 ERA. He has since struggled to recapture that kind of success over an extended period of time. However, the recent results produced by the right-handed sinkerballer suggest he could be close.

He'll need to be at his best again Monday for the Indians to stop a three-game slide that has them 4 1/2 games back of first-place Detroit in the American League Central race.

Carmona may have delivered his best performance of the season in his last start, an 8 1/3-innings masterpiece on Wednesday against the White Sox. He allowed just one run and four hits, striking out six and throwing a season-high 118 pitches.

"It's been pretty important for us," Indians manager Manny Acta said. "He's a guy that, coming into this year, and looking at our rotation, he's one of those guys that we're counting on."

Acta said Carmona's recent success has resulted from more confidence in his heavy sinker. Since returning from the 15-day disabled list on July 18, Carmona is 2-2 with a 2.63 ERA.

"When he's as dominant as he can be, he relies a lot on that power sinker and just mixes the offspeed stuff here and there to keep guys off of it," Acta said.

Seattle counters with Jason Vargas (7-11, 4.37) for Monday's opener of a four-game set at Progressive Field. In his only start against Cleveland this season, Vargas allowed seven runs in 3 1/3 innings of a 12-3 loss on April 8, a performance similar to his most recent outing in which he surrendered eight runs in four innings on Tuesday to the Blue Jays.

The teams will play a doubleheader on Tuesday.

Mariners: Young players get chance to grow

Manager Eric Wedge admits that with his team out of contention, he's more focused on testing his young players rather than poring over win-loss records. Wedge said he wants to know which inexperienced players could factor into the team's future. One way of doing that is seeing how pitchers handle the pressure of battling through a jam.

"You give them that extra hitter to see how they react to it," Wedge said. "That extra hitter now is the third inning, but that extra hitter next year might be the eighth or ninth inning. ... When it's really easy just to cave in, that's when you find out about guys and that's what we're trying to do."

Indians: Ubaldo runs into road block

Ubaldo Jimenez, dealt to the Indians prior to the non-waiver Trade Deadline, has an 11.77 ERA in three road starts with Cleveland. In four outings overall since the trade, the right-hander has an ERA of 7.29. He yielded eight runs and nine hits in just 3 1/3 innings on Sunday against the Tigers. In his lone start at Progressive Field, however, Jimenez allowed three unearned runs in eight sharp innings.

Worth noting

• Indians designated hitter Travis Hafner has struck out 21 times in his last 51 at-bats. He's hitting .196 over that stretch.

• In 15 games since being acquired prior to the non-waiver Trade Deadline from the Tigers, Mariners outfielder Casper Wells is hitting .333 (18-for-54) with six home runs.