Cleveland Sports Forum

So will the Indians continue to be cheap and protect Dolan's pockets or will they try to win? The other Cleveland sports teams are actually trying to win. Willl the Dolans follow suit or will they continue to be boring. I actually listened to MLb radio this am.

PHOENIX, Ariz. – John Hart walked into the interview room at the general managers meetings Tuesday at the Arizona Biltmore Hotel and the room momentarily slipped into a time warp.

Hart, the man who steered the Indians to World Series appearances in 1995 and 1997 as general manager, is back. He recently signed a three-year deal with Atlanta as president of baseball operations.

He has returned to wheeling and dealing, but first he had to get something straight. The Braves are not trading their entire roster. There have been multiple media reports that most of the Braves roster is "in play,' including B.J. Upton, Justin Upton, Jason Heyward and Evan Gattis.

"We're not trading our entire team," said Hart. "This is the general managers meetings. We haven't even had any conversations with anybody. All of a sudden I'm trading my whole team."

Hart did make it clear the Braves are looking for starting pitching after Ervin Santana, Aaron Harang and Gavin Floyd turned free agent. The Braves offered Santana a $15.3 million qualifying offer, but he rejected it.

"We're going in with the idea of finding some starting pitching," said Hart. "That's the hole on this team right now. We've lost close to 400 innings out of the rotation and we have a hole at the upper levels of our system. We don't have any young starting pitching ready for the big leagues."

The Indians do have starting pitching and Hart says he talked to them briefly.

"I've had really brief conversations with Chris (Antonetti)," said Hart. "They're looking for some pop in their lineup. They're not looking to move any of their young starting pitching.

"As we sit here today I don't know if there's a great fit there, but I think there's some mutual interest in certain players. It's just about whether you can make something like that work."

The Indians rotation goes seven deep with Corey Kluber, Carlos Carrasco, Trevor Bauer, T.J. House, Danny Salazar, Josh Tomlin and Zach McAllister. Carrasco, Bauer and McAllister are out of options.

We're going in with the idea of finding some starting pitching," said Hart. "That's the hole on this team right now. We've lost close to 400 innings out of the rotation and we have a hole at the upper levels of our system. We don't have any young starting pitching ready for the big leagues."

John Hart...pitching expert.


If Hart could have landed a few good pitchers, Indians would have won a few WS.

What makes anyone think he knows good pitching now?

Dennis Martinez and Orel Hershiser were, as the saying goes, not chopped liver.

When we decided not to trade Wright for Martinez we blew it.

kenm wrote:When we decided not to trade Wright for Martinez we blew it.

They probably wanted Manny as well!

Corey Kluber: Cy Young Award winner and role model for any pitcher who feels frustrated and forgotten -- Terry Pluto

on November 12, 2014 at 10:18 PM, updated November 12, 2014 at 10:19 PM


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- If you have a drop of underdog blood running through your veins, you should be happy for the Cleveland Indians' Corey Kluber.

Kluber edged Seattle's Felix Hernandez for the Cy Young Award. Hernandez had an excellent season, 15-6 with a 2.14 ERA. Baseball has become a swamp of stats, from basic to advanced to obscure to utterly irrelevant.

Had Hernandez won the voting, it would not have been an outrageous injustice.

I love how Kluber said, "I would've been in no position to have any kind of argument if he would've won. He had such a great year."

He meant every word. Kluber takes his pitching very seriously, but not the fame that is a part of the game. He didn't even make the All-Star team in 2014 despite a solid 9-6 record with a 3.01 ERA.

He never complained. That's part of the reason he has emerged as the American League's best pitcher at the age of 28. He never, ever takes anything for granted -- nor does he expect much public attention.

He knows the game is hard. He knows as much about failure as success. He knows that a pitcher has to keep learning, keep working -- and most of all, keep his mind on what happens on the mound in order stay in the big leagues.

"I know it's harder to stay in the big leagues than it is to just get here," Kluber told me when spring training opened in 2014.

He meant every word.

THE VOTING

There were 30 members of the Baseball Writers Association of America who voted on the Cy Young Award. There were 17 with Kluber rated No. 1, 13 had Hernandez.

Good for them, especially the 17 who looked closely at Kluber's 18-9 record and 2.44 ERA for the worst defensive team in baseball. They knew that all of those victories were earned, and several of the losses were not his fault.

They saw past the hype around the pitcher with the nickname of King Felix ... and beyond the seven-year, $175 million contract that Hernandez signed in 2013.

They voted for a guy in only his second full big league season, a pitcher whose career record was 13-10 with a 4.32 ERA when he took the mound for his first start of 2014.

Does anyone remember what happened on that day in Oakland? It was April 2, and Kluber was shelled for five earned runs and eight hits in 3 1/3 innings. That's how his season began.

And it ended with Kluber winning his last five starts -- a 5-0 record with a 1.12 ERA, 54 strikeouts with only five walks in 40 1/3 innings. Those starts came with the Tribe desperately trying to grab a wild-card playoff berth. So he was at his best when it meant the most.

THE LITTLE BIG DEAL

When the Indians traded for Kluber on July 31, 2010, it was one of those summer deadline deals. The Indians were limping to a 69-93 finish in the final season of manager Eric Wedge. They traded Jake Westbrook to the Cardinals, in what mostly appeared to be a salary dump. It was a three-way deal, Kluber coming to Cleveland via San Diego.

At the time, Kluber was 24 years old. He had a 6-6 record with a 3.45 ERA at Class AA San Antonio. The Tribe scouts liked the fact that he was leading the Texas League in strikeouts.

San Diego made Kluber the 134th pick in the 2007 draft. He was pitching for Stetson University. In a long story near the end of the season, I wrote about how scouts were very lukewarm about Kluber. Many thought he'd be a bullpen guy, or perhaps a fifth starter.

Kluber never, ever takes anything for granted.

Hey, in 2011, he was 7-11 with a 5.56 ERA for the Tribe's Class AAA Columbus team.

So no one saw this coming. At that point, he had to feel frustrated and a bit forgotten. Would he ever figure it out and make the majors?

His career minor league record? Try 44-50, a 4.42 ERA. Even in 2012, he was 11-7 with a 3.59 ERA at Columbus, 2-5 with a 5.14 ERA for the Tribe.

When the 2013 season opened, Kluber was in the minors -- again. But he received a quick promotion when Brett Myers had a bad elbow, and the Tribe was looking for another starter.

THE CURVEBALL

So what happened?

In 2013, Kluber began to listen to Mickey Callaway, the pitching coach who preached the gospel of Strike One. Callaway talked about walks as being the root of evil for pitchers with flaming fastballs such as Kluber. He also convinced the right-hander that his curveball was more than a pretty good second pitch.

His curveball was big time. His curveball was a killer, especially to right-handed hitters. His curveball could make Kluber special.

On the MLB awards show, there was a stat showing that opposing batters had a .095 batting average against Kluber's curve. That was in more than 200 plate appearances.

Kluber just stopped walking people. And he kept striking out people ... more and more hitters. Only two pitchers in Tribe history -- Bob Feller and Sam McDowell -- had more than the 269 strikeouts in a season that Kluber piled up in 2014.

On the mound, Kluber seems to glare at the world with a face that looked chiseled in stone, a beard that hides any emotion. His voice often in a monotone, as if he doesn't want anyone to know what he is feeling.

That led to the nickname, "Klubot." I never liked that very much. It implies that Kluber is a machine, a robot.

At the age of 28, Kluber is pure flesh and blood who needed four shots at the Majors before finally sticking. He's a determined man who learned from rejection and losing and can tell any pitcher about the value of paying your dues at every level of the minors.

What Kluber has become is more than a Cy Young Award, he's a study in persistence -- and that may be the best compliment of all.

PHOENIX, Ariz. – The Indians liked the look of their starting rotation when they arrived at the general managers meetings Sunday. They felt the same when they left Thursday.

Led by AL CY Young winner Corey Kluber, they run seven deep with Carlos Carrasco, Trevor Bauer, Danny Salazar, T.J. House, Zach McAllister and Josh Tomlin. So how would Justin Masterson fit into that group?

Yes, the Indians have talked to Masterson about returning to Cleveland.

Masterson opened last season as their No. 1 starter, struggled and was traded to St. Louis on July 30. Masterson won two of his first three starts with the Cardinals, but struggled again and was taken out of the rotation.

The Indians would only be interested in Masterson on a one-year deal. Masterson's camp probably wouldn't mind that either, because it would give him a chance to re-establish himself before going back into the free-agent market after 2015.

In spring training, the Indians offered Masterson a multiyear deal worth an estimated $45 million, but he rejected it. Masterson was seeking $17 million a year.

Masterson's return would require a balancing act. Bauer, Carrasco and McAllister are out of options. McAllister could go in the bullpen, which would probably mean House and Tomlin would open the year at Class AAA Columbus.

House made five trips to Cleveland last season and went 5-3 in 19 appearances, including 18 starts. He was the only lefty in the rotation and showed a funky delivery that produced 16 groundball double plays in only 102 innings.

Tomlin, who has two options left, went 6-9 with a 4.76 ERA in 25 appearances, including 16 starts.
It would be hard to start the 2014 version of Masterson (7-9, 5.88) in front of House or Tomlin. By the time he was traded, he'd slipped from No. 1 to No. 5 in the rotation.

If Masterson is healthy and pitches like he did in 2014 [sic: that was 2013 Paul] when made the AL All-Star team, that would be a different story. Boston, which drafted Masterson in 2006, is one of several teams that have shown an interest in the 6-6 right-hander.

So what happened to Masterson last season? It turns out that he pitched hurt.

"At the end of the season, Justin said he really felt he should have spoken up more about what was going on with him," said St. Louis GM John Mozeliak. "It was just one of those things that didn't work out.

"His first couple of wins for us were huge. After that it just didn't go well for him."

In September of 2013, with the Indians driving toward a wild-card appearance, Masterson strained his left oblique muscle. He came back at the end of September and pitched out of the bullpen.

In spring training this year Masterson's ribcage area was still tender, but he never told the Indians. He was the opening day starter, leader of the staff and trying to get a contract extension.

Randy Rowley, Masterson's agent, said the injury caused a change in his mechanics, which led to soreness in his right knee. Masterson didn't talk to the media about his sore knee until late June. When he did, he said he'd been dealing with it since his second start of the season.

In September, after the trade to St. Louis, Masterson had an MRI on his right shoulder and it showed an impingement. The Cardinals gave him a cortisone shot.

Rowley said Masterson is finally healthy. If he is and he can pitch back to his 2014 [sic 2013, Paul is a year ahead of himself, consistent at least] form, the team that signs him will get a 30-year-old proven starter who until last season had pitched 180 or more innings in four straight seasons.

Yes, the Indians must improve their offense, but their definition of improvement goes like this: You have to find a way to score more runs or prevent more runs from being scored against you.

If they can't find a way to improve an offense that averaged three or fewer runs in half of their games, what about adding another starting pitcher that could keep the other team from scoring? Or tighten up the defense. i.e. prepare for an IF with Lindor at Short and Urshela at 3rd

No way: It was reported earlier in the week that the Orioles are looking to trade disappointing Ubaldo Jimenez, who they signed to a four-year, $50 million contract in spring training.

Another report suggested that the Indians might be interested in bringing Jimenez back if they could send one of their bad contacts to the Orioles.
[Swisher for Jiminez? What a deal.]

Jimenez had his best season in the last five with the Indians in 2013 when he went 13-9 with the help of pitching coach Mickey Callaway. No, that does not mean they want him back.

Track record: The Indians have produced four Cy Young winners, including three in the last eight years. Two, Kluber and Cliff Lee, were acquired in deals as minor leaguers.

That's pretty good scouting and development.

The Indians acquired Kluber from San Diego in 2010 as part of a three-team deal with St. Louis. The Indians sent Jake Westbrook to the Cardinals in the deal.

Owner Paul Dolan kicked in $2 million to offset Westbrook's contract so the Indians could get Kluber.

Finally: Look for the Indians to try to sign closer Cody Allen to a multiyear deal this offseason. They approached him during the regular season, but talks stalled.

Alvin Dark, who as a player led the New York Giants to NL pennants in the 1950s and who later managed San Francisco and Oakland with success, died Thursday at his home in South Carolina. He was 92.

Dark played for the Boston Braves, New York Giants, St. Louis Cardinals, Chicago Cubs, Philadelphia Phillies and Milwaukee Braves from 1946-60, winning the Rookie of the Year in 1948.

Dark was an anomaly as shortstops went in that era, known as much for his offense as his glove. He was the first NL shortstop to hit 20 homers in a season more than once and batted better than .300 four times. He had a career batting average of .289 with 2,089 hits in 14 seasons, but also led NL shortstops in double plays three times.

After he retired as a player, Dark in 1961 was appointed manager of the Giants, who moved to the West Coast after the 1957 season. In 1962, he led the Giants to the NL pennant, although they lost in a riveting seven-game World Series to the Yankees when Willie McCovey’s line drive was caught for the final out by Bobby Richardson with the tying and winning runs on base.

You can see clips of that World Series in the video above.

Dark later went on to manage the Athletics, both in Kansas City and Oakland, as well as the Cleveland Indians and San Diego Padres, his last stop as a manager in 1977. He led the A’s to a World Series title in 1974 and finished with a managerial record of 994-954.

Dark managed the Indians to their most successful season between 1959 and 1994 in 1968. He overmanaged like mad and I enjoyed the game, which I was lucky enough to attend, when he temporarily parked Sam McDowell at 2nd base so he could bring him back in after a right hander reliever got one out. And of course the batter grounded to 3rd, Eddie Leon moved over from second for the play didn't have a strong enough arm to throw all the way to first so he had to ship to Sam who jumped on the bag for the force and ran quickly out of the way. Don't recall who the righty for that one out.

Checking baseball reference it was 1970 that same played his 1/3 inning at 2nd base, registered a putout and therefore had a range factor of 27. Also had 2/3 inning at 1st base. And I believe that Mike Paul and Jim Rittwage also had opportunities to play in the field.

I could imagine Dark's managing being viewed as a precursor to the wild and crazy, and successful, managing that Joe Madden has unleashed nearly half a century later.

it's too easy to find stuff online.

Mike Paul played 1/3 inning at 1st base in 68
Jim Rittwage played 1/3 inning at 3rd base in 70.

How would I have been able to find this in the dark ages? I could have tried my Sporting News annual baseball guide, but it give defensive stats? Ditto with the Indians pressbook?

Impossible to debate the past now.

So what happened to Masterson last season? It turns out that he pitched hurt.

Oy. An all-too-familiar scenario!

Its called an excuse !