Cleveland Sports Forum

Me too.

Q:What are the best indicators/attributes of a prospect remaining a starter throughout his career and not being converted to a reliever? Velocity? Pitch assortment? Command? Control? Makeup? What combo? What keeps a starter a starter?

Mike Volberding
Danville, CA




BA:
The easiest answer usually to give is that scouts look for clean deliveries, strong frames and two secondary pitches to go with the fastball. A pitcher who can’t develop a breaking ball, one who struggles to repeat his delivery and his release point or a sub-6-footer or pitcher with a skinny frame is more likely to end up in the bullpen.

But let’s take it a step further. It’s an anecdotal look, but there’s value in looking at past results. Let’s look at the 30 pitchers from the 2009 Top 100 Prospects list who are still pitching in 2014. Of that group, 14 were starters last season, 10 were relievers and six bounced between the bullpen and the rotation.

If you looked deeper into the team Top 30s, you would find more prospects who ended up as relievers and fewer who stuck as starters partly because of need. Teams usually use 15-20 relievers at the big league level during a season, but only 7-10 starters, so there are more big league jobs for relievers.

So what turned pitchers from starting pitching prospects into big league relievers? Here is how the 10 now full-time relievers ended up moving to the ‘pen.

Daniel Bard, rhp. Why He Moved: Wildness as a starter. Couldn’t maintain his mechanics.

Michael Ynoa, rhp. Why He Moved: Injuries. Missed most of three seasons, moved to ‘pen because option clock is ticking after being added to 40-man roster before 2013 season.

Neftali Feliz, rhp. Why He Moved: Elbow injury. Feliz started his MLB career as a closer, moved to the rotation in 2012 but needed Tommy John surgery so Texas moved him back.

Wade Davis, rhp. Why He Moved: Ineffectiveness. As a reliever, Davis has posted two excellent seasons. As a starter, he’s been mediocre at best. Davis’s velocity takes a big jump when he pitches in relief.

Jordan Walden, rhp. Why He Moved: Delivery. Walden’s max effort and jump-to-the-plate delivery fits better in the bullpen than the rotation as it’s near impossible to repeat 75-85 times a game.

Philippe Aumont, rhp. Why He Moved: Extreme wildness. Aumont’s crossfire delivery never stayed in sync for long. He’s walked 5.5 batters per nine innings for his career. Seattle moved him to the bullpen the next season.

Jeremy Jeffress, rhp.Why He Moved: No control. Jeffress had a 100-mph fastball, but never demonstrated an ability to find the strike zone. He’s just starting to find some semblance of fringe-average control as a 26-year-old reliever.

Brett Cecil, lhp. Why He Moved: Ineffectiveness. A college closer, Cecil never found consistent success as a starter. Moving to the ‘pen turned a fringy fastball in a tick-above-average offering, making a big difference.

Brian Matusz, lhp.Why He Moved: Ineffectiveness. Matusz’s four-pitch approach seems better suited to starting, but so far, he’s proven a poor starter who is a better, if still mediocre, reliever.

Adam Miller, rhp.Why He Moved: Injuries. Miller’s career was derailed by finger problems. He missed all of 2008 and 2009 and has never been effective since.

When it comes to pitching, trying to make any sweeping generality can get dangerous, but there are clearly some clear trends and they are ones you see crop up from year to year.

Injuries can force a move to the ‘pen, either because a pitcher can’t stay healthy or to speed a player’s development. Poor control is another big factor. Three of the 10 relievers cited above struggled to throw strikes. Another (Walden) moved to the ‘pen at least in part because of wildness brought on by his delivery.

And for three of the pitchers, struggles as a starter led to a move to the bullpen. It’s easier to pitch in the bullpen and most pitchers can gain a full grade on their fastball or more if they switch to relieving. For pitchers such as Davis and Cecil that’s made the difference between being fringy back-of-the-rotation starters and lights-out relievers.

So what can you look for? A track record of injury issues, a fringe-average fastball (or a lack of a clear third pitch) and a poor delivery. But more than anything, a pitcher who is struggling to throw strikes will likely end up in the ‘pen unless they find a way to improve their control.

Bizarre story in Baseball America by Jim Ingraham, featuring the bright future of Jordan Smith who "looks like a baseball player" at 6-4 240 and who earns an underserved compliment that he's "getting better every year". The stiff managed a 640 OPS in his debut at age 24 in Akron; and with his big body yanked two balls out of the park. Ingraham could have found lots of more interesting players to feature than Smith, who deserves his outright release as soon as there's anyone else available to fill out the Ducks' outfield.

I hope that Luigi Rodriguez and Levon Washington get to make their AA debuts this season. Not that either of them has made great progress but they're younger and may have more tools than Smith's one: good RF arm.

Didn't know most of these guys were in camp, although I guess most of them did appear in one ST game for an at bat or two.

RHP Ben Heller assigned to Cleveland Indians.
03/05/15 1B Nellie Rodriguez assigned to Cleveland Indians.
3B James Roberts assigned to Cleveland Indians.
IF Taylor Murphy assigned to Cleveland Indians.
OF Bradley Zimmer assigned to Cleveland Indians.
1B Bobby Bradley assigned to Cleveland Indians.
OF Ollie Linton assigned to Cleveland Indians.
SS Yu-Cheng Chang assigned to Cleveland Indians.

Tribe usually brings up one or two low minors kids for a game. The kids love it because they get major league meal money for the day. Big difference from eating in the minor league cafeteria.

MLB.com Indians Top 30

http://m.indians.mlb.com/news/article/1 ... -prospects

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2015?list=cle

Nothing surprising at the top with Lindor, Frazier and then Zimmer. Urshela at #4 is much higher than he usually is listed, but I'm a fan so cannot complain other than to want Mejia this high. Then back to normal with 5-Naquin, 6-Ramsay, 7- Mejia 8-Sheffield 9-Papi 10- Bradley

Dylan Baker at #14 expects a return to form after injury. Cody Anderson at 17 makes more sense than BA keeping at 10 after a dreadful year in Akron. I like a lot of the second teen: 11. Gonzalez, 12. Mitch Brown, 15. Yu-Chiang Chang, 16. Lugo

The final 10 include a couple kids not in the BA top 30: 17 year SS Willi Castro and speedster CF Greg Allen.
No room for the minor league's top basestealer Gabriel Mejia, but then again he has not yet played in the U.S.

Minor League Baseball.com profiles top defensive players at all the positions. We score very well, which bodes well for a defensively challenged team.

No. 1 at the most important defensive position:

Francisco Lindor is on the big league doorstep, but until the 21-year-old graduates from the farm, he's unequaled in the Minor Leagues when it comes to defense. We wrote as much prior to the 2014 season, noting that his physical ability, polish and intangible talents formed a unique package for a Minor Leaguer.

The Indians prospect is an above-average runner with tremendous reactions and instincts on the dirt. He has the arm to go deep in the hole and polished footwork and agility in all directions. He's had the tools and confidence to make spectacular plays for a while, but he's also shown increasing consistency as he's aged, lifting his fielding percentage 19 points to .971 between Double-A and Triple-A last season.

Beyond the athleticism and mechanical proficiency, though, Lindor is touted for his intangibles. He's only 21 but already is an established leader in the upper levels of the Cleveland system. He directs traffic around the infield with a veteran's presence and intelligence, and players listen when he speaks. That makeup is what sets Lindor apart from the competition in the Minors and should make for a relatively smooth transition to the Majors.

Honorable mention among SS include:
Cleveland's Erik Gonzalez won't bump Lindor off shortstop but does profile as a plus defender with good range and a huge arm


The 2nd name on the 3b list is:

Giovanny Urshela, Indians -- Between 2011-12, Urshela's fielding percentage shot up from .934 to .964, and he's been considered among the Minors' best at the hot corner ever since. Gifted with quick reactions and an above-average arm, Urshela has become a refined product on the dirt. He has the footwork, agility and hands to make all the plays and does so reliably and with some flash.

"He was very steady at third base," an opposing International League manager said. "He has a calming presence and a consistent first step toward the ball. He's always in the right spot."

No. 2 defender among corner outfielders:

Bradley Zimmer, Indians -- Cleveland drafted Zimmer in the first round (21st overall) last summer, primarily for his stick, which projects well if he's an above-average corner outfielder defensively. The Indians aren't counting out center as a possible destination for the University of San Francisco product, but right field is probably a better fit, as Zimmer might be a bit stretched range-wise up the middle. Then again, most were projecting Tyler Naquin as a corner guy when Cleveland took him in the first round in 2012, and now Naquin is a no-doubt center fielder. That said, Zimmer's arm isn't as strong as Naquin's -- though still well above-average -- and he's not quite as quick. The total package should thrive in a corner, though, with right field the best fit for his skill set.

Although he's very young my favorite makes the rankings at catcher:

Francisco Mejia, Indians -- Mejia is well behind those listed above, having just reached short-season ball in 2014. Still 19, the native of the Dominican Republic has an excellent starter kit for a big league catcher, featuring a big arm -- MLB.com puts a 70 on it -- and promising receiving skills. Coaches have had good things to say about his makeup, and his English has progressed, too. Mejia could rocket up this list and become one of the Minors' premiere defenders in the next few seasons.

The only important position where we are shutout is CF

Cleveland Indians released 1B Jerrud Sabourin


[a 1b with no power and not much else either]

Anybody know anything about this friggin guy?

.

Todd Paquette ‏@IndiansAccounts · 49 minutes ago
Cleveland #Indians with an International signing 19yr old 6'0 205lbs RHP Jhonleider Salinas out of Caracas, Venezuela

Naquin and Urshela both open the season on the Columbus DL, along with pitcher Corey Brewer.

Clipper rotation starts out with Salazar and a bunch of other team's veterans:

Bruce Chen, quite the veteran, age 37, LH.
Sean Marcum, missed nearly all the past 2 seasons, RH
Nick Maronde, 25 LH reliever with the Angels major league ERA in 30-some appearances 7.13
Mike Roth, another ex-Angel LH reliever, age 25. Major league ERA in 20-some appearnces 7.79

It appears that this year's rosters are posted for Columbus and Akron, but not yet for the Class A teams. The only new guys on the Akron roster are 3b Yandy Diaz and backup catcher Jeremy Lucas. Roster shows the whole bunch of nonprospect outfielders returning: Gallas, now age 27; Myles; and Jordan Smith.

I expected Levon Washington and Luigi Rodriguez to crack the weak OF in Akron. Still listed on Lynchburg's sketchy roster.

Some new names in the pitching corps; the starters will be Cody Anderson, returning after a miserable year; Shawm Morimando lefty who finished the season fairly well in Akron but fell out of the top 30 list; Ryan Merritt soft throwing lefty who had a great year in Carolina and made the 40 man roster; and Mike Clevinger a big right hander who we got from the Angels for Vinnie Pestano. 5th starter I guess will be returning Will Roberts.

Partial retraction of last post: Lynchburg roster as posted is only half full, but the Captains have a full quota:

http://www.milb.com/roster/index.jsp?sid=milb&cid=437

Included is Justus Sheffield the 18 year old lefty who we picked with our second first round choice. Other promising lefties are Sean Brady, Anderson Polanco and Thomas Pannone.

Franciisco Mejia well regarded 18 year old catcher is starting here. Also Arizona MVP Bobbie Bradley at 1st; SS-3B Yu Chiang Chang who hit almost as well as Bradley; and speedster CF Greg Allen.

Noted returnees, who should've graduated to High A, are RHP Dace Kime, who was terrible at the start of 2014 but finished up reasonably well; and Dorsyss Paulino who will be back here for the 3rd year. Not a positive sign for his once-promising career.

I had hoped to see Silento Sayles in the Lake County OF, but not ready for full season team, yet. Ditto for 2014 draftees RHP Grant Hockin and LHP Sam Hentges.

Since they are not listed anywhere else, we can be sure that the Lynchburg lineup will feature a whole crowd of our promising big bats:

OFs Brad Zimmer and Clint Frazier and Mike Papi. 1B Nellie Rodriguez.

Starting pitchers will include reasonable good prospects Mitch Brown, Luis Lugo, Dylan Baker, Adam Plutko and Robbie Aviles.

Here's a story on the Lynchburg Roster:

Three of the Cleveland Indians’ top-five prospects according to Baseball America will open the 2015 campaign with Lynchburg, as the Hillcats begin their first season as the Advanced-A affiliate for the Cleveland organization Thursdayat Potomac.

Aside from being recognized by Baseball America, the three elite prospects share much more in common. All three are outfielders, and all three were taken within the Top-40 overall picks of the draft in the past two years. Bradley Zimmer, the No. 2 prospect for the Indians by Baseball America, earned First-Team All-America honors after hitting .368 with seven home runs and 21 stolen bases for the University of San Francisco as a junior. That production elevated Zimmer to being named the fifth-best prospect in the 2014 draft by ESPN’s Keith Law, and the Indians selected him with the 21st overall pick. Zimmer hit .304 in 45 games with Mahoning Valley before playing three games with Lake County at the end of the season where he posted two home runs and a double in only 11 at-bats. Baseball America has tabbed Zimmer as the best athlete in the entire Cleveland system.

Clint Frazier, the fifth overall pick in the 2013 draft, will be patrolling the outfield along with Zimmer and former University of Virginia standout Mike Papi. Frazier, whom Baseball America named as its 2013 High School Player of the Year, was drafted by the Indians out of Loganville High School in Georgia. Named the best power hitter in the Indians farm system entering 2015, Frazier belted 13 home runs, 18 doubles and six triples while also stealing 12 bases in 120 games with Lake County last season. Papi, who was selected 38th overall after leading Virginia to the 2014 College World Series, is the fifth-best prospect for the Indians according to Baseball America. Papi claimed the ACC batting title as a sophomore by hitting .381 and tied for the conference crown in home runs as a junior when he hit 11.

Additional top prospects for the Indians beginning the year with Lynchburg include right-handed pitchers Mitch Brown(No. 14) and Adam Plutko (No. 24) as well as first baseman Nellie Rodriguez (No. 19). Brown was drafted out of high school in the second round of 2012 and posted a 3.31 ERA in Lake County last year. Plutko, who was the ace on UCLA’s 2013 National Championship team, returns to the Carolina League after registering 79 strikeouts in 97 innings with a 4.08 ERA for the Carolina Mudcats a year ago. Both Brown and Plutko have plus-pitches in their repertoire, as Baseball America says they have the best curveball and changeup, respectively, in the Cleveland farm system.

Rodriguez has also garnered attention from Baseball America, as the publication tabbed him as Cleveland’s breakout prospect for 2015. The 15th-round selection attended the same high school as Manny Ramirez and was picked directly out of George Washington High in New York City. Rodriguez led the Midwest League last year in extra-base hits with 57 while tying for the league crown with 22 home runs. He also ranked third on the circuit with 86 RBIs.

Overall, Lynchburg’s Opening Day roster features 12 players who saw time in the Carolina League last year with the Carolina Mudcats. Meanwhile, the entire Hillcats field staff for 2015 has been a part of the Carolina League at some point in their careers. Manager Mark Budzinski played with the Kinston Indians in 1997, while hitting coach Bobby Magallaneswas a member of the 1992 Peninsula squad that eventually claimed the league title. Pitching coach Tony Arnold pitched for Hagerstown when it was the Carolina League Class-A affiliate of the Baltimore Orioles in 1982, and he has made three different stops in the league as a pitching coach in the Indians system. Strength coach Scott Nealon and trainer Bobby Ruiz both return to the Carolina League after being with the Mudcats last season

Lynchburg opens its season on the road at Potomac Thursday, April 9, at 7:05 p.m. The Hillcats’ home opener is slated for Thursday, April 16 when Lynchburg hosts the Nationals at 6:30 p.m. Season tickets and book tickets are on sale now and can be purchased by calling 434-528-1144. Fans can also purchase tickets by stopping by the Front Office Monday-Friday 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. All 140 Hillcats games this season will be broadcast on ESPN Radio 93.3 FM and 1320 AM in addition to an online stream that can be found at www.lynchburg-hillcats.com. The On-Deck Show for the season opener takes the air live from Pfitzner Stadium Thursday at 6:40 p.m.