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Re: Articles

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:20 pm
by J.R.
http://tribevibe.mlblogs.com/2013/08/10 ... 0_10677044

Rocky, Max Alvis, Gary Bell luncheon

Re: Articles

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:16 pm
by civ ollilavad
They still looking older than me. That's the way major leaguers are supposed to be, not a bunch of kids younger than my own children.

Re: Articles

Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:16 pm
by Tribe Fan in SC/Cali
J.R. wrote:http://tribevibe.mlblogs.com/2013/08/10 ... 0_10677044

Rocky, Max Alvis, Gary Bell luncheon
The biggest takeaway is that class and talented athletes (perhaps before PEDS) wish and plan to age gracefully.

"The Rock" has forearms at age 80 that are "The Ripped."

Dolan looks dumber than he looks old. Of course Dolan still pays MarieShapsonettiCona and seems to care not what the heck is going on.

Re: Articles

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:02 pm
by rusty2
Grady Sizemore Likely To Sign In Offseason
By Steve Adams [August 13 at 9:35am CST]
Former Indians center fielder Grady Sizemore has remained in touch with multiple clubs and is likely to sign with one in the offseason, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). A series of major surgeries on Sizemore's knee, back and elbow have slowed what looked to be one of the most promising careers in baseball a few years ago.

Sizemore, who recently turned 31, hit .281/.372/.496 with 107 homers and 115 steals from 2005-08 -- his age 22-25 seasons -- earning three straight All-Star selections, a pair of Gold Gloves and a Silver Slugger. He missed only nine games over the course of that four-year run, but he's played in just 210 games since, hitting .234/.314/.413.

This past offseason, Sizemore stated that he would wait until he was ready to participate in games to sign with a club. He hasn't appeared in the Majors since 2011, but considering the fact that he's still just 31 and will likely receive a minor league deal, I'd imagine a significant number of teams will be in touch with Sizemore's agent, Joe Urbon of CAA Sports. Sizemore was connected to the Mets back in December, and more recent reports indicated that the Twins would be interested as well.

Re: Articles

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:03 pm
by rusty2
Indians Sign David Cooper

By Zach Links [August 13 at 4:11pm CST]

The Indians announced that they have signed first baseman David Cooper to a minor league deal. Cooper can opt out of the contract in late August if he's not added to the major league roster by that time, Jerry Crasnick of ESPN.com reports (Twitter links). The 26-year-old is a client of CAA Sports.

Cooper appeared in 45 games for the Blue Jays in 2012 as a first baseman and designated hitter and posted a .300/.324/.464 batting line in 145 plate appearances, including four home runs. He was released in March by Toronto after missing significant time with a back injury. The problem was apparently serious enough to make retirement a possibility.

Re: Articles

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:00 pm
by J.R.
Cleveland Indians run producers -- Nick Swisher, Carlos Santana and Asdrubal Cabrera -- failing to deliver: Terry Pluto



CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Enough.

I'm sure that's what Terry Francona told the Tribe in a recent team meeting, only in much stronger language. Enough of the sloppy baseball. Enough of players distracted at home plate. Enough of guys who have been underachieving.

Consider these batting averages:

Nick Swisher, .182

Carlos Santana, .171

Asdrubal Cabrera, .150

That's what three members of the Tribe's starting lineup are batting in August, a month in which the Tribe are 4-8 heading into Tuesday's game at Minnesota. They are on multi-year contracts because they were expected to be run producers.

Hardcore fans know about last August, a 5-24 record in what was one of the worst months in franchise history. The Indians not only are supposed to be better than that, they should far above that 2012 edition.

That's why I say -- enough.

In some ways, the Tribe is playing like a team feeling sorry for itself. I know that happens when you're not hitting. The team looks almost comatose, and certainly distracted and defeated.

One question -- why? The Indians are 63-56, and this should be a team that finishes several games over .500. At the start of the season, if someone told me the Tribe would be 63-56 in the middle of August, I'd have signed up for it.

This is not a repeat of last season, when the Indians were 54-65 after 119 games. They aren't playing Casey Kotchman, Zeke Carrera, Brent Lillibridge and Shelley Duncan as they did in 2012.

So this is not an "eat dirt and die" column about the Tribe. It's mostly one of frustration. The team is 12-12 since the All-Star break with a 3.26 ERA, so pitching is not really the problem. These guys just aren't hitting.

You can point to Swisher and his $56 million contract as underachieving, and you'd be right. It's like the Tribe has been waiting for "Nick To Hit" almost from opening day. But he's slogging along at a .240 pace with 12 homers and 37 RBI. I keep thinking he's going to get hot ... and I keep being wrong. But he has had some better at-bats recently than some others in the middle of the lineup, namely Santana and Cabrera.

Santana is trapped in his "pull everything" syndrome. His leg goes up, his head jerks to the side and he swings so hard, it seems he'll fall down. And the result is a slump (.212 since the All-Star break), and the return of some bad habits that haunted him the first half of 2012.

Cabrera has been annoying to watch. He's hitting .238 with nine homers and 44 RBI. It's only .187 since the All-Star break, and that's trending the wrong way. His play at shortstop has disturbing.

Mark Reynolds was supposed to help, but after a 10-week mega slump, he was cut.

It's true that Cabrera, Swisher and Santana are not power guys in terms of 100 RBI and 30 homers a season. In the previous two years, here is what they have averaged: Swisher (23 HR, 89 RBI), Cabrera (21 HR, 80 RBI) and Santana (22 HR, 78 RBI). None are close to that pace.

There are good reasons for the Tribe's collective batting slump, beginning with facing some of the American League's toughest pitchers. Detroit is chewing up the rest of baseball, and that four-game Tigers sweep has sent the Tribe into a swoon.

But none of that explains so many routine plays being messed up in the field, or so many poor at-bats in clutch situations.

Right now, the Tribe has one hot hitter since the All-Star break -- Yan Gomes (.436). The only others batting at least .250 are Drew Stubbs (.296), Jason Kipnis (.268) and Ryan Raburn (.250).

The three guys in the heart of the lineup expected to drive in runs -- Swisher, Cabrera and Santana -- are doing so little.

The same can be said of the Tribe lately.

Re: Articles

Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:19 pm
by civ ollilavad
Cabrera has been annoying to watch. He's hitting .238 with nine homers and 44 RBI. It's only .187 since the All-Star break, and that's trending the wrong way. His play at shortstop has disturbing.
As I've said. Doesn't seem that he ever keeps in shape to play a whole season, or else he has lost some of his skills at a pretty early age, or maybe lost his passion -- making millions can do that, but he's become remarkably expendable. I hope no other teams have noticed so we can get a lot back in return.

Re: Articles

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:20 am
by rusty2
Former No.1 pick David Cooper gets another chance: Cleveland Indians insider

Paul Hoynes, The Plain Dealer By Paul Hoynes, The Plain Dealer

on August 13, 2013 at 9:39 PM, updated August 14, 2013 at 12:04 AM


MINNEAPOLIS, Minn. -- Depending on what David Cooper does in the next couple of weeks, there's a chance the Indians could take a look at the first baseman in September. They signed the former No.1 pick to a minor-league deal Tuesday and sent him to their spring training site in Goodyear, Ariz.

Cooper, 26, is recovering from experimental back surgery in April that has threatened his career. Before that he was a prospect with the Blue Jays, who selected him with their No.1 pick in 2008.

The plan right is for Cooper to knock off some rust in Goodyear and join Class AAA Columbus in about a week. As for a September call-up, that will depend on several things including where the Indians are in the standings and how Cooper is playing.

"He needs to play regularly," said GM Chris Antonetti. "Once he does, we can assess his September possibilities."

ESPN's Jerry Crasnick reported that Cooper's deal includes an escape clause for later this month if he's not added to the big-league roster.

Cooper has not played since being released by the Blue Jays in March. Last year he hit .300 (42-for-140) with 11 doubles, four homers and 11 RBI in 45 games with Toronto before suffering a sprained back in August. After being released by Toronto, Cooper had surgery in April. The operation involved removing a herniated thoracic disk and inserting a titanium plate and two titanium screws.

Cooper, a left-handed hitter, started last year at Class AAA Las Vegas, where he hit .314 (83-for-261) with 27 doubles, 10 homers and 52 RBI in 62 games. He played in parts of the 2011 and 2012 seasons for Toronto.

Whip it good: Justin Masterson threw a bullpen session Wednesday and apparently the whip is back. Against the Angels on Sunday, Masterson turned in his shortest start of the season, lasting only 4 1/3 innings.

"He told me the whip wasn't there," said manager Terry Francona. "I kept asking him if he needed an extra day's rest, but he said no."

Masterson said Wednesday's pen went well.

"I got that nice good feel again that I didn't have in my last start," said Masterson, who starts against Oakland on Friday. "My leverage was a little bit off."

Testing, testing: A week after spraining the middle finger of his right hand while throwing 7 1/3 scoreless innings against Detroit, Corey Kluber threw a baseball for the first time Tuesday afternoon.

He played catch at about 60 feet with head trainer Lonnie Soloff for about 10 to 15 minutes. Kluber had the injured finger taped while he played catch.

"It's a start," said Kluber.

Kluber is expected to miss four to six weeks, so his season could still be over.

"He's progressing really well," said Francona. "He's at the mercy of the way the finger heals, but he seems to be healing quickly. In the meantime, he's been in the weight room killing it."

No worries: Before Monday's game, Ryan Raburn and Soloff were seen walking down the concourse at Target Field. Raburn didn't play Monday night so there was some concern about his health.

"I'm fine," said Raburn on Tuesday. "We were just going to complete my physical for my contract."

Last week Raburn signed a two-year $4.85 million extension with the Indians. The deal included a $3 million club option for 2016.

In the fold: Cuban right-hander Leandro Linares, who signed with the Indians for $950,000, passed his physical last week in Cleveland and reported to the team's baseball academy in the Dominican Republic.

To date, Linares is the top international free agent signed by the Indians this year. The signing season started July 2.

Coming home: Cleveland's girls 18-under fast-pitch softball team came within one victory of qualifying for the RBI World Series on Tuesday in Minneapolis. Playing in single elimination, they beat Nobu Yamauchi RBI from Hawaii, 3-1, in the morning, but lost to Atlanta, 3-2, in the game that could have put them in title game Wednesday at the University of Minnesota.

The RBI program is sponsored by MLB. RBI stands for Reviving Baseball in the Inner City.

Finally: Class A Carolina right-hander Cody Anderson was named the Indians' minor league player of the week. Anderson allowed one run and struck out five in seven innings as Carolina beat Frederick Keys, 12-1, on Friday. He struck out five, walked one and didn't allow a runner past second. Anderson is 9-4 with a 2.34 ERA in 23 starts.

Re: Articles

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:33 pm
by J.R.
Former Indian:

EX-MLB PLAYER CURTIS GUILTY IN SEX ASSAULT CASE
Aug. 16 11:17 PM EDT


HASTINGS, Mich. (AP) — Former major league outfielder Chad Curtis faces up to 15 years in prison after a jury in West Michigan found him guilty Friday on charges that he inappropriately touched three teenage girls.

Curtis, 44, was convicted of six counts of criminal sexual conduct and will be sentenced Sept. 26 in Barry County.

Curtis was accused of touching two 15-year-old girls last year when he was a volunteer weight-room strength trainer at an area high school. A 16-year-old girl later told authorities that he touched and fondled her in 2011.

"We give these young ladies so much credit for their courage," Barry County Prosecutor Julie Nakfoor-Pratt told MLive.com after the verdict. "It took a lot of courage to testify. This has been such a long road for them. This is a step in the healing process for them."

Curtis' attorney, David Dodge, did not immediately return email and phone messages from The Associated Press seeking comment Friday evening.

Between 1992 and 2001, Curtis played for the then-California Angels, Detroit Tigers, Los Angeles Dodgers, Cleveland Indians, New York Yankees and Texas Rangers. He won two World Series rings with the Yankees.

Re: Articles

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:47 pm
by rusty2
paul hoynes ‏ @ hoynsie 41m

Francona says he believes Jason Giambi, 42, wants to play again next year and he'd love to have him back

Re: Articles

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:52 pm
by J.R.
Nick Swisher says word is out on Yan Gomes: Cleveland Indians chatter

By Paul Hoynes, Northeast Ohio Media Group

on August 20, 2013 at 8:55 PM, updated August 20, 2013 at 9:28 PM


ANAHEIM, Calif. -- Seen and heard at Angel Stadium on Tuesday.

Clubhouse confidential: First basemen are good talkers. When an opposing player reaches base, the first baseman almost always engages him in conversation.

Nick Swisher is no different and Monday night he said he's heard more and more of the opposition talking about Tribe catcher Yan Gomes.

"Guys get to first base and say, "Swish, I'm not going anywhere. This guy has a cannon,'" said Swisher. Gomes is throwing out 48 percent (12-for-25) of the baserunners he's face this season.

Wheels: When Jason Giambi batted against lefty Buddy Boshers in the eighth inning Monday, manager Terry Francona told left-hander Scott Kazmir to get his spikes because he was going to pinch run if Giambi reached base.

"On some teams guys roll there eyes when you ask them to do something like that," said Francona, "but Kaz sprinted up to the clubhouse to get his spikes. That's what makes this team so fun to manage."

Giambi didn't reach base, but Kazmir was ready. "I've gotten hot more than a couple of times this year, especially in interleague games," he said. "I'd love to get in a game and show my skills."

Stat of the day: When last year ended, the Indians hit .234 against lefties, the lowest average in the AL. This year they're hitting .266 against lefties

Re: Articles

Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:24 pm
by Tribe Fan in SC/Cali
I have a Rock, Pop & Doo Wop playing on PBS as my wife is running away with my phone to stop me from making another PBS donation....

I like thinking back to the past. Some remembrances I prefer over others, but I am glad I have them all....against a background of the present....with current evaluative skills for perspective.

I love revisiting history.


This was from June. My post. Ancient history for those here it seems, which is likely congruent with 47% with reference to The Citizens of Cleveland who can actually read.

The post......one act play, if you will.....

_____________________________

Let me be perhaps the first to say that The Cleveland Indians need to shop and sell Nick Swisher before the trade deadline. Some pennant hungry team that is not us might be interested, even with the remnants of his $56 million dollar contract Shapiro and Antonetti gave him for four years including this one.

If I were Dolan, here's what I would do tomorrow.

_________________________________________________________

Dolan : (to his admin) Please ask Mark Shapiro to come to my office.

Shapiro: You wanted to see me Larry?

Dolan: Mark, please shut the door and have a seat. Would you like a drink? (it's me, playing Dolan, of course)

Shapiro: Yes, please. Whatever water is now more in style than Perrier once was. I'm texting my stat guys to work on it, and I'll let you know in a couple minutes.

Dolan: That was a nice win last night Mark. We're sitting at 35-35 as the halfway mark of the season approaches. Not bad.

Shapiro: Not bad at all, Larry. Not bad at all.

Dolan: Yes, but Mark, let's be honest, it's not great. Right?

Shapiro: I am not sure what you mean, Larry. I thought "not bad" was good?

Dolan: Well Mark, it IS Cleveland so I get where you are coming from. But Mark, here's the thing. I know you were a history major at Princeton, but you told me once you played high school baseball, so I presume you can calculate percentages, batting averages, and the like, right?

Shapiro: Yes sir! I in fact was an inspired high school baseball player! I could play ALL the positions! (sweat beads building as Mark detects Dolan might be on to the significance of baseball playing experience for his paid guys in the front office)

Dolan: Mark, let's walk through the math. Fortunate for us that Detroit lost tonight, but still the season numbers and prospects do not look so good for us. Let's say we hope Detroit goes 47-46 the rest of the season? Just over .500 baseball. Mark, do you think that is likely to happen?

Shapiro: It sure would be nice if it did, Larry!

Dolan: (pregnant pause) OK........but Mark.... do you realize we would have to go 52-40 the rest of the way for us to end up in First Place on the last day of the season if Detroit DOES go 47-46?

Shapiro: That would be great, Larry! You are awfully good with numbers and things. I sure hope we go 52-40 the rest of the way! And I sure hope Detroit plays .500 ball! By the way, my stat guys just texted me that I need a Voss water to drink, with a lemon wedge!

Dolan: I'll see what we have, Mark. Mark, how's your Dad doing? I hope he is in good health? And I hope he is still active and having fun with his MLB sports connections?




Shapiro Yes sir, he is! I am so glad he helped me get this job with The Cleveland Indians. After I graduated college he got me a job in Southern California and I kept getting lost on all those freeways! After a few months of phone calls to him for directions help, he arranged this Cleveland Indians job for me and I am so happy he did!


Dolan: Mark, your Dad is a good Father. Mark, we appreciate your 23 seasons in the organization, and the last 12 with the title General Manager and President. We all now believe you have performed and delivered to the level of your best abilities. But Mark, let's get back to those season numbers we talked about....Do you REALLY think Detroit is going to play essentially .500 ball the rest of the season?

Shapiro: Those guys on SportsCenter think they are pretty good, so I think that .500 thing might not happen to them.

Dolan: Mark, do you think our guys on the roster and in the wings will get us to the 52-40 we would need to catch Detroit if they DID play about .500 ball?

Shapiro: I don't know, Larry. The guys on SportsCenter never talk about us, so I am not sure what to say to that question.



Dolan: (pregnant pregnant pause) Mark, I need you to get Nick Swisher's contract off the books by the trade deadline.

Shapiro: I do not understand. My stat guys told me Nick is high on the "super cool" fan graph, and is almost as high as Grady was on the "female fan" graph! That's why I gave them $81 million dollars to play in Cleveland! Wasn't that good?

Dolan: Mark.. (deep breath) .....I am WELL aware that you gave Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner and Nick Swisher almost $160 million over the last seasons. I watched the games, and I signed their checks. (for literary reality, Dolan is not perfect with numbers, either)


Shapiro: Well I know the numbers did not work out for the best in the standings, but all those guys were big fan draw guys, at least.

Dolan: Mark, I respect you, but we are last in the league in attendance, and we were near the top of the league when you took over as General Manager.

Shapiro: "But the economy be very, very bad in Cleveland". Hee hee, Mark made a funny! You remember that Saturday late night show when that black guy said something like that, right Larry?


Dolan: (pregnant pause) Mark, I need you to get Swisher's contract off the books ASAP. And I know you have done your very best in your 23 seasons, but facts are we only have TWO winning seasons in the twelve since I made you GM and then President. And things aren't looking good for making the playoffs in 2013, and most fans, and frankly me, do not see our immediate competitive future as a franchise very appealing.

Shapiro: I've always been inspired by your insightful nature, Larry. Hey, did you see that "Moneyball" movie? They put me in there as a character. Wasn't that great!!

Dolan: Mark, I need you to get Swisher's contract off the books. I need to make certain we are not handicapped by his salary over the next three seasons as we do not have the right guys here now to give me any confidence in 2014, 2015 or 2016. And Mark, one more thing. I am glad your Dad is still in good health, and connected. You and he have my blessing to sniff around for another job for you, beginning today.

You need to know that I need you to get rid of Swisher's contract by the trade deadline. If you do not, you will exit mid-season, as graceful as I can make it. If by chance this team makes the playoffs I will tune in and perhaps give you yet another chance.

Shapiro: You are a good and honest man, Larry! Thank you for the words! That new owner of The Browns with the name that sounds Arab is a crook. What a shlock, right?

Dolan: (pause and pause and pause) Mark, one hint if we get to the point, make certain your 3rd base coach knows what stadium he is playing in, and who he has running at 2nd base.

Shapiro: I shall get a diagram of every stadium, sir, and give it to our 3rd base coach in pocket form. I'll have my stat guys run numbers of who might be on 2nd base at any time while the 3rd base coach is performing.

Dolan: Mark. No Voss water. Win tomorrow and it will be a good first step.

Re: Articles

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:30 pm
by J.R.
Cleveland Indians "ahead of schedule" in terms of contending? Maybe, says ESPN and Terry Pluto

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Are the Indians ahead of schedule?

That’s the headline on a story by ESPN Insider Paul Swydan. It’s a legitimate question. Are the Indians doing better than you expected? Are they in serious position to contend for a playoff spot next season?

Swydan thinks that’s the case, and I tend to agree.

The Tribe has a 67-58 record following Monday’s 5-2 victory over the Angels. They are 16-14 since the All-Star break, 4 ½ games behind the last wild-card spot.

Remember, this is a team that lost at least 93 games in three of the last four seasons. One more victory would equal their humble win total (68) of last season. It may also set them up for a playoff run next season, according to Swydan – one of ESPN’s stat geeks.

The reason? Starting pitching. And who’d dare to imagine that in spring training.

Swydan has already subtracted Scott Kazmir and Ubaldo Jimenez from the 2014 rotation. Kazmir is a free agent after the season and likely to price himself out of the reach of the Tribe – unless he has a major late-season collapse and/or an injury. And if that happens, then you have to wonder if it’s wise for the Tribe to invest in the lefty.

But it also would be nice to actually have a lefty in the rotation for next season. That creature does not exist in the upper levels of the Tribe’s farm system.

Kazmir is 7-6 with a 4.36 ERA. He has been knocked around in his last two starts and may or may not have a “tired arm.” He was throwing 93-95 mph during much of Sunday’s 7-3 loss, when he gave up five runs in five innings.

Jimenez is a surprising 9-7 with a 4.00 ERA. That’s not what the Indians hoped for when they traded for him on July 31, 2011. They thought they’d have a front-of-the-rotation pitcher.

By the end of July of 2012, they wondered if this guy would even remain in the 2013 rotation. He was 9-17 with a 5.40 ERA, leading the American League in losses and wild pitches, and he was second in walks. He looked like a lost cause.

At least now, he’s OK. Not great. Not even good. But OK.

He and the Tribe also have a mutual contract option for 2014. That means both sides have to agree to a $5.7 million option, and that’s unlikely.

But All-Star Justin Masterson (13-9, 3.59), Corey Kluber (7-5, 3.54), Zach McAllister (6-7, 3.59 ERA) and phenom Danny Salazar (1-1, 4.08 ERA) are back.

The fifth starter would come from Carlos Carrasco, Trevor Bauer (6-6, 4.14 ERA in Class AAA) or perhaps a veteran to be signed in the off-season. They will take free agents Brett Myers and Mark Reynolds (a combined $13 million) off the books in 2014.

As the Myers and Reynolds signings reveal, those one-year deals don’t always pay off as they have in the past for the Tribe – think Carl Pavano and Kevin Millwood.

If Josh Tomlin continues his strong comeback from elbow surgery, he could be a candidate for the rotation. Tomlin was 12-7 with a 4.25 ERA in 2011. If nothing else, he could help in long relief.

In the meantime, the Tribe is in the race for one of the two wild-card spots. I recently wrote about the defensive failures of catcher Carlos Santana and shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera -- and ESPN’s Swydan agrees. He wrote the defense “won't ever be a total team strength as long as Cabrera and Santana are on the team. No matter the measure you want to use, both are among the worst -- if not the worst -- at their positions. Cabrera is just terrible.”

The Tribe is addressing the problem of Santana by having him play more first base and DH, while Yan Gomes is emerging as the regular catcher for 2014. Gomes has a chance to be an elite defensive catcher.

Cabrera’s miserable season (.238, 9 HR, 46 RBI, .655 OPS) will torpedo his trade value. The final year of his $10 million contract is 2014. The Tribe may find a bidder for the two-time All-Star, but not sure how much they can reap in return.

The Tribe has several shortstop options. Their all-world prospect is Francisco Lindor at Class AA Akron. He’s now out with a back injury, but is ticketed for the majors some time in 2014.

Akron teammate Jose Ramirez also can play short and could be a candidate next season. He is now playing some third base and may even be promoted to Cleveland in September.

An immediate option is Mike Aviles, who has been a starting shortstop for Boston and Kansas City.

So while the Tribe is 8-10 in August, there really is hope for next year.

It will feel even better if they can keep things interesting this season with a strong finish and some meaningful games in September.

Re: Articles

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:27 pm
by civ ollilavad
Cabrera is just terrible.
So why in the world did AL managers rate him as No. 3 defensive shortstop in the "Best Tools" voting for Baseball America? Do the manager see something that no one else does?

Re: Articles

Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:40 pm
by seagull
It's called blowing smoke.