Cleveland Sports Forum

Still have the opportunity to nontender, don;'t they? Hannahan was one name mentioned, so were Perez and Sipp and another one or two.

Last year, Lee joined the Indians in big league camp for Spring Training and then posted a 2.57 ERA with eight strikeouts and one walk over seven innings with Triple-A Columbus prior to his injury. In 2011, when Lee was Cleveland's Minor League pitcher of the year, the right-hander went 6-1 with a 2.40 ERA and 99 strikeouts in 71 1/3 innings between Double-A Akron and Triple-A.

Haley, 22, is viewed as one of the most promising young arms within Cleveland's system and he could figure into the big league bullpen picture at some point during the 2013 season. Haley spent time in Class A last season, but Cody Allen's rise from Class A to the Majors last year showed Cleveland's willingness to reward performance with rapid ascension.

In 25 games between Rookie League Arizona, Class A (high) Carolina and Double-A Akron, the right-handed Haley went 4-1 with a 2.33 ERA. Haley, who missed roughly two months due to a sports hernia procedure, piled up 49 strikeouts against 19 walks in 38 2/3 innings. His fastball can hit triple digits and he also features a curveball and sinker.

The 23-year-old House went 10-5 with a 3.56 ERA across 27 starts between stints with Class A Carolina and Double-A Akron last season. Over 149 1/3 innings, the lefty struck out 116 batters and issued 50 walks.

Had Fedroff, 25, been on the 40-man roster last season, he might have made his big league debut down the stretch for the Indians. If the young outfielder's performance in 2013 is similar to last year's showing, that step in his career could come at some point this summer.

Last season, Fedroff hit a combined .316 with an .879 OPS in 123 games between Double-A Akron and Triple-A Columbus. The center fielder churned out 12 home runs, 23 doubles, 10 triples, 14 stolen bases, 54 RBIs and 79 runs in the process.

Fedroff's production was consistent at both levels, too. In 54 games at Double-A, the lefty-swinging Fedroff hit .305 with an .839 OPS. In his 69 games with Columbus, he increased his pace, posting a .325 average to go along with a .910 OPS for the Clippers.

Rondon has hardly pitched in two years after a couple surgeries. He used to be a top prospect; now considered only a relief candidate. Someone could take a gamble on him.

Aguillar has only played a couple dozen games above Class A. Hard to imagine another team would want to waste a year of his development on the major league roster. But he does have more upside than most of the guys we protected.

From the Tribe's Facebook page.
The responses are very telling. Do you think the owners and management will get the message?

Cleveland Indians
3 minutes ago via MLB.com
We're thankful for all of our fans! Tell us, what are you thankful for?
Like · · Share
54 people like this.

Will Gibson Memories of having a competitive professional baseball team.
2 minutes ago · Like · 6

Allen Dobranic That the season is over. Time for yet another overhaul.
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

Michael Kelly the cleveland indians
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Marmil Dylan Villaflores I am thankful for the chance to see guys play...
2 minutes ago · Like

Matthew Wilson I will be thankful if The Indians can make some changes worth a darn this off season to benefit the team and not hinder it for a change.
2 minutes ago · Like · 1

Ryan Stuck thankful that we will have a new coach next year
2 minutes ago · Like

Janny Ledford Jack Well I'm thankful for family and friends, a job I love, and for waking up every morning.
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Kevin Butts I'm thankful to have 3 professional sports teams in my city even tho they are embarrassing and depress me and make me want to move away. Happy thank you day!
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Sam Maxwell the big signings the dolans are going to pull off this offseason! this is for april fools right?
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Joshua Wessell Thankful for family, friends, and the Cleveland Indians! GO TRIBE!
2 minutes ago · Like

Alex Lozano Alex White and Drew Pomeranz.... Oh wait.... Ubaldo??
about a minute ago via mobile · Like

Andy Synyster Zavarella I'd be thankful if the dolans would sell the team b
about a minute ago via mobile · Like · 3

Craig Hodge Looks like the same old bs to me Matt.
about a minute ago · Like

Shelley Beyser Mcpheron Memories and The Wonderful Indians Team
about a minute ago · Like · 1

Jim Rugan well i'd like to be thankful that maybe the tribe will finally have a winning season again ha!
about a minute ago · Like · 1

Andrea Lysyj Chris Perez!
about a minute ago · Like

Jim Reifsnyder Family
about a minute ago via mobile · Like

Chris A Fuentes for the slim chance Dolan will sell the team eventually before its moved.
about a minute ago · Like

Brett Hagen I'm thankful for Hafners contract ending
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

Ray T Champion Really?
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

Deb Painter I am thankful for baseball and being a Indians fan my whole life!
a few seconds ago · Like · 1

Brad Devine In relation to the Tribe, I'm thankful for the awesome stadium they play in.
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like · 1

Patrick Curry All 32 fans! Lol
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

Cody Micheal Wines im greatful now i only gotta watch the browns lose once a week
a few seconds ago · Like

Terri Postlethwait Living in NH and being an Indians fan... I'm glad we have Tito!!!!
a few seconds ago · Like

Mark Gockowski Terry francona!
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

Don Phillips I'm thankful for being alive when the Indians were actually competitive during the 90's, and seeing firsthand what it's like to root for a team not owned by skinflints.
a few seconds ago · Like

Amber Surbey thankful we WONT be getting season tixs next yr!
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

Chandler Erickson Im thankful that the Cleveland Browns were braught back to the NFL in 99
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

Aaron Matti did you really just ask? I'm thankful Hafner is gone
a few seconds ago · Like



Shane Brown I'm not thankful for anything coming from the Cleveland Indians. I've never seen a more inept organization in my entire life. Shapiro and Antonetti whiff on an entire decade of drafts leaving our farm system empty yet somehow both receive promotions. ...See More
6 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

Christopher Marinin All the monumental offseason moves to bring in new talent that will keep our major league team competitive and watchable so that I may go downtown and spend my hard earned money on a team I feel proud to represent...oh wait...
6 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Matt Olschlager does ownership ever read this? They really should. it's nothing personal against the admin running this page.
5 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Alan Glazen I'm thankful for the prospect of getting the trribe some new owners!
5 minutes ago · Like

Douglas Link Thankful that Spring Training is only 100 days away...Go Tribe...
5 minutes ago · Like · 2

Chris Moore Mostly, the end of the 2012 season. But seriously, I'm thankful for my job, family, and friends.
5 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Austin Miller A Cleveland organization that produces a productive team...oh wait...nevermind
5 minutes ago · Like · 1

Stephen Zachman The Cleveland Indians and the Cleveland Clinic.
5 minutes ago via mobile · Like

John Brayer Thankful that we are not spending nearly $20 mil on Hafner and Sizemore this year.
5 minutes ago · Like

Chris Allchin Thankful for rumors of the dollans selling
4 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Amanda Cruz There are only two things I'm thankful for coming out of Boston... my husband and Terry Francona!
4 minutes ago · Like

Alexa Zervos Pumpkin pie
4 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Lizzy BackIn Black I'm thankful that LaPorta is off the 40 man roster.
4 minutes ago · Like · 2

Erich Gliebe That your season is over!
4 minutes ago · Like

Matt Jones Im thankful bad baseball still entertains me.
4 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Chris Hauer I'm thankful that the "Ace" pitcher of our rotation had 17 losses last year, and our second best pitcher had 15. I'm thankful we're going to be forced to rebuild again because of Mark Shapiro's moronic draft choices. I'm thankful we traded away Brandon...See More
3 minutes ago · Like

Cody David Gray I would be thankful for anything that looks like progress but doesn't look like that...best thing in Cleveland is the Browns and they still can't win close games
3 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Holiday Inn Express Hotel Phoenix-I-10 West/Goodyear We are thankful for the great Cleveland Indians fans that visit us in March every year. We look forward to welcoming them back in 2013.
3 minutes ago · Like

JP Worley I'm thankful when It's Tribe Time Now!...
3 minutes ago · Like

Marc Reimer I am thankful to be able to remember the tribe teams of the 90's. I am thankful to remember an owner that wasn't afraid to spend money to get money in return. I am thankful I was able to watch our beloved tribe fold each of the last three seasons only to have upper management sign minor league ball players.
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Nicholas Bayer no more Sizemore or hafner
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Karen Vidra Cleveland, Ohio!
2 minutes ago · Like

Brice Lonsinger They might have asked for some of these comments with a post like this after this season
about a minute ago via mobile · Like

Nate Martin Kenny Lofton
about a minute ago via mobile · Like

George Gallagher Getting a manager that can win I have been a Indians fan for 40 years and looking forward to this season thank you for some hope
about a minute ago via mobile · Like

Dennis Ostrow I'm thankful I no longer live in Cleveland so I'm not tempted to go to the games on a regular basis and have my heart broken in person. Much easier to cope with not being there in person to witness it 1st hand
about a minute ago · Like

Ted Lux Dwindling supply of fans.........
a few seconds ago · Like

Samantha Terry Dye I won't be thankful untill the Tribe opens up their wallet for some legit players and quits bringing in washed-up no names!
a few seconds ago · Like

John Decker The day someone new buys the team
5 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Caitlin LaBonte I'm thankful that my dad started me on baseball young. I went to one of the last games at municipal stadium and when it was over I asked where the Indians were at cause I didn't understand that was the name of the team, I think I was 3 or 4. Now I love going to the games even just once a season.
5 minutes ago via mobile · Like

John Moore Thankful that I got to watch Kenny Lofton, Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, Omar Vizquel, and Roberto Alomar in the same lineup.
5 minutes ago · Like · 4

Michael Richardsjr I'm thankfully if u don't trade all of our players that are worth a damn like chop and Cabrera
5 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Ed Holman Pronk goin bye bye
5 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Laetyn Jordan If u were TRULY thankful you'd win more!!!!!
5 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Jeremy Cain Jimmy Haslem and Dan Gilbert
4 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Sal Nigro NOT THANKFUL for the CHEAPASS DOLANS!!!!
4 minutes ago · Like

Bob Cvengros This is a joke, right?
4 minutes ago · Like

Tyler J. Maier Asdrubal sticking it out!
4 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Nate Williamson Nice PR move, Tribe.
4 minutes ago · Like

Nathan Young Making the playoffs. Oh, wait...
4 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Beau Huey Francona.
3 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Ray Ray I'm thankful for my friends and family and the fact that baseball is on offseason, can't take watching 3 loosing teams!!!
3 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Jordon Darrah Mark Cuban buying the team
3 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Mark Scherer Are you really??? Then bring in some better players that aren't already 40.
3 minutes ago · Like

Barnicle Bill Getting rid of hafner and sizemore
3 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Andrew J Kallay Growing up, being able to watch Kenny lofton in his prime
3 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Todd N. LeVeck Major League Baseball in a small market.
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Jerrell Ray Major league the movie
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Brandon Lyle Travis Hafner being off the books!
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Roy Luevano Being alive long enough to see a tribe world series win..
2 minutes ago · Like

Frank Jordan I'm thankful we have our tribe!
about a minute ago via mobile · Like

Jim Mitchell Jr Thankful for my family , And the Tribe win or lose always a fan .
about a minute ago via mobile · Like

Michael Gibson That just MAYBE next season will finally be THE SEASON!
about a minute ago · Like

Stephen Olszewski I was thankful when the Indians were good...
about a minute ago via mobile · Like

Bob Collins I'd be thankful if the Indians actually would look over into the other division and note that Toronto seems to not have a problem making moves to provide a winning team.
about a minute ago · Like

Rick McCann I would be thankful if you got some people that know something about baseball
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

Jeff Ozimek I think it's best for everyone if the Indians just stay off of Social Media. I'm thankful for the entertaining comments every time the Indians post something. I'm also thankful for the memories of the 90's that I'll never have again. #FiretheDolans
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

Shae Grubb Thankful that its over .......
a few seconds ago via mobile · Like

That's a pretty universally negative crop of reactions for the Indians to make available on their own page!

Chris Langmann Hopefully moving to the USA from Australia.....
about an hour ago via mobile · Like

Jeffrey Tangey Right handed power bats. Can we get a couple please?
about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 1

Zach Barr family, food, shelter, list goes on and on
about an hour ago · Like · 1

Justin Weiser I'm thankful for football season!
about an hour ago · Like

Cristen Hackenbracht Dodd Thankful that at least we have the Buckeyes who can win!
about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 4

Michelle Lilek I'm thankful for all the men and women who fight for my freedom.
about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 1

Matt Krafty Dan Gilbert, Jimmy Haslem III, and the Inidans poor social media team who continues posting things no matter how badly we destroy them every time.
about an hour ago · Like · 6

Joe Rhodes The new Indians coach
about an hour ago via mobile · Like

Rob Ostrom I'm thankful that I'm not spending any money next year to go watch a bunch of AAA players at Jacobs' Field.
about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 6

Mark Herron Losing baseball, losing football, losing basketball, insane ticket prices to see all that losing
about an hour ago · Like · 1

Kelly Cook Not have to watch the second half of last season.
about an hour ago via mobile · Like

Jeff Stein I would be thankful for new ownership
about an hour ago · Like · 2

Shawn Patrick Gregg You should be thankful to have any fans left
about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 4

Chuck Markovich The ability to dream, cause that's the only way we win a championship !!
about an hour ago · Like · 3

Komg Yochickgoesinsane Rio ill b thankful wen da indians stop penny pinchen n spend sum money on da key free agents dat b out dare
about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 2

Edward J. Mularz III What If ........................................
about an hour ago via mobile · Like

Shawn Morris Knowing that one day Dolan will have to die and we will get a better owner
59 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Rick Bender I am thankful for 3 run homers, double plays and infield singles. I'm thankful for pitchers duels, doubles to the gap and diving catches. Go Tribe!
59 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Scott Roberts Family and that I like other teams besides the Indians!
59 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Mary Bennett DiFranco The beautiful week we have had here in OH!
59 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Joe Taraba What fans still go to the indians games?
59 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Matt Nolan Thankful for not re-signing sizemore or hafner....
58 minutes ago · Like · 3

Frank Zabotsky Johnny Damon, Derek Lowe, Casey Kotchman all the great pick ups last season!
58 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 4

Vickie Chicko-Ball Thankful for my family and also the Cleveland Indians.
58 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Stephanie Rutherford all the boys of the cleveland indians!!!!!
57 minutes ago · Like

Matt Krafty Let me add you SHOULD be thankful for all of your fans because there are less every single day.
56 minutes ago · Like · 4

Mark Mason Mark Shapiro!
56 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Joyce Kubec Fisher Asdrubal Cabrera
56 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Ray Shreffler Family!
56 minutes ago · Like

Kerrie Flood thankful for my tribe n family
55 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Russell Jurecki Thankful that Pronk's albatross contract is over.
55 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Kris Moran Im thankful that its not baseball season bcuz the indians hurt my eyes.
55 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Joey Lawrence I'm thankful that at least I'm not a Pirates fan?
54 minutes ago · Like · 2

Jake Porter That there's no baseball for another 5 months.
54 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Elijah Jacob Being a Tribe fan
54 minutes ago via mobile · Like

John Sammon The future and new ownership
54 minutes ago · Like · 6

Flannery's Pub You guys! Thank you Indians. We hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving Day.
54 minutes ago · Like

Jonathan McClish The Mid-90's seasons to remind me it is possible, when management doesn't trade away all our talent before they reach their maximum potential, to get to the post season...
53 minutes ago · Like · 1

Paula Leonard Grateful for you always losing?
52 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Cathy Rospotynski I am thankful for my family and friends, my job and for living in Cleveland we may not be a perfect city but we all strive to make it a vibrant city.
52 minutes ago · Like · 2

Sallyscatering PeterOlah Please sell the team. I will be thankfull.
51 minutes ago · Like · 3

Mitchell Lyons I'll be thankful if the Dolans sold the team
50 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

Nathan Dick a hometown team with REAL fans and not bandwagoners
50 minutes ago · Like · 1

Mike Kelley fOT THE iNDIANS
50 minutes ago · Like

Lisa Howe Huber If you can't say anything positive don't say anything at all! Indians rock!!
49 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Josh Kurtz It takes either a ton of naivety or stupidity to ask a question like that while repping a team that just seems intent on taking money and breaking hearts..... Starting to look at the Tribe like my Ex-wife. 2 things I USED to love, both just bringing pain and misery into my life.
48 minutes ago · Like · 6

Damian John Priolo I'm thankful that the people who think they could run the club better and think they know everything are not in charge.
46 minutes ago via mobile · Edited · Like

Tim Divito Im thankful for indains baseball
48 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Stacey Clark The great times my boyfriend and I had at the games win or loose The tribe gave us that
48 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Richard T Morelli The browns have a new owner!
47 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Nathan Dominic Francona
47 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

David Karpinski Your "What If" campaign that reminded me of when we had ownership who was willing to spend and do what it took to win... Not the cheapest.
47 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Jerome Carl Vanditti Jr. I'm thankful for the first half of every season... And then the inevitable collapse.
47 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Mitchell Martin Id be thankful for new ownership! Or maybe a gm that brought back talent with trades!
47 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 4

Shane Sullivan TERRY FRANCONA
46 minutes ago · Like · 2

David Kozelka Well i would be thankful if we fired shaprio and ecspecially antonetti.......
46 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Bob Collins 52 years as a fan. Have pretty much settled on the notion that I would never realize a World Series victory in my lifetime. But I'm thankful at least I can look in the mirror and say I don't pretend the organization is good and "rocks" just because I happen to like following them and their ridiculously incompetent ways. When I was a kid, I used to be delusional like that and think that Roy Foster really SHOULD have been the 1970 Rookie of the Year over that Munson guy.
45 minutes ago · Like · 1

David Karpinski All the dollar dog nights, college id nights, bobblehead giveaways, fireworks... Some incentive to make me go watch that pathetic assembly of has-beens we picked up in free agency.
44 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Patricia Jones Burrell I am a new fan of this team supporting my homie, T. J. House, from Picayune, MS. Geaux TJ!!! Best of luck.
43 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Adam Curtis A new tribe owner... There is always hoping to be thankful for that!
43 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

Julie Beadle Wow, even the smallest statement is an invite for everyone to be a complete jerk about the Indians. Nice.
43 minutes ago · Like

David Crisp Francona! And I'd be thankful if the tribe would bring up the right players from triple A!
43 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Christopher A. Bobbitt I am thankful that I had the opportunity to go to game 5 of the 1995 World Series. Yeah Hose Mesa gave up a home run to David Justice and we lost but at least I seen the Tribe in the World Series. That opportunity will probably never come around again. JUST SAYING!
42 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Joshua Glick I'm thankful for God!
42 minutes ago · Like

Matt Makela The hope that Haslam or Gilbert can somehow obtain and save the Indians.
42 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Traver Lentz Thankful there is always a chance the Dolans will sell the team
42 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Patrick Hann Tell you I'm not thankful that the indians Don't spend the $$ they need to stay in the race for the AL central... It's starting to get old being a cleveland fan...I'm getting tired.
41 minutes ago · Like · 2

Robbie Koerper For new owners that want a winning team.
41 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

David Grob I am thankful you won't be playing on Thanksgiving
41 minutes ago · Like · 1

Evan Clatfelter I'm thankful I have a team I can cheer for win or lose.
40 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Matthew Stewart That I haven't heard Shapiro/Antonelli try to spin a losing season into something good.
40 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Matt Teske I'm thankful that when I want to watch the Indians beat the Yankees, all I have to do is watch Major League
39 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

Craig Eckart For friends and family the things in life
39 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Francis Haas Thankful the season is over !
38 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Ray Gigliotti I'll be thankful for Dolan if and when he starts spending money to make the team better. We need to get back to our glory days in the 90's when we had superstars here and people actually went to games. You have a big name skipper now, so you should be able to entice some solid players to come in. Let's go Dolan, get your act together! Give us all a nice Thanksgiving gift!
36 minutes ago · Like · 2

Hank S Czerwien Nothing tired of them loosing
36 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Joe Galaszewski New ownership
35 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

Tasha Green Mixon Thankful for the 90's era...wish we could get that back.
34 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Sheldon L. Green I am thankful that there is at least a crumb of news that the Dolans are selling the team.
33 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2

Luke Ilersich Notre Dame, atleast 1 team i like is winning
32 minutes ago · Like · 1

Mike D'Angelo I wish I could say a World Series title in my life time... Come on tribe
32 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Brandi McArthur Hammerling 10 dollar tall boys lol
32 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Scott Hendricks Literally nothing, we stink
32 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Frank Savel Thankful for us signing Josh Willingham last off-season to finally stabilize the outfield and get the RH power bat we've needed for years... Oh wait...
31 minutes ago · Like · 3

Andy Goebel Im thankful i havent seen a single Snow Days ad this year.
31 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

Dean Pasalis I will be thankful when there is a new ownership group running the Indians. Why do you ask questions like that people running this Facebook page? You know that 99% of fans want the Dolans to sell the team.
31 minutes ago · Like · 4

Jason Hayes My family, kids and my health.
30 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Gina Riddle Don't trade ASDRUBAL!!!
30 minutes ago · Like · 1

Cam Marr Thankful for the Cleveland Indians, Carlos Santana being a catcher with versatility. I'm thankful they play at Fenway once a year. And I travel 3 hours 1 way 3 states to see my tribe!!! I'm thankful for the hotstove keeping me calm for pitchers and catchers,and then. . Opening day. Ahhhhh ,God bless America. The Indians were named after Louis sockalexis from Maine. My home state. My favorite team has many connections too. I love baseball my girlfriend and family. But tribe and family r the most precious
29 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Patty Devellin Club seats with my friends and family!
29 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Cam Marr I'm thankful for Jason kipnis
29 minutes ago via mobile · Like

John Wooten I be thankful when the Dolans sell the Indians
28 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 3

G Mark Smith another year closer to the Dolan's selling
28 minutes ago · Like · 2

Cam Marr I'm thankful for Mike aviles having a great glove and back up stick
28 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Cam Marr I'm thankful for vinnie pestano
28 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Cam Marr I'm thankful for meeting Chris perez
27 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Bill Waltz Family, friends ... and everything we need: not everything we want, but everything we need.
26 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Jeff Knisley Thankful for the original Stadium Mustard.
25 minutes ago · Like

Justin Fargus I'm thankful for the hope that the Dolans sell the team. Dolans, give back to Tribe fans and pleaaaaaase sell the team. You have no business literally and figuratively being the owner for the Tribe. It's becoming painful watching these guys run the tm. Oh wait, we did sign Matt Carson, I think that's his name. Hopefully he can turn out to be like Brent Lillibridge.
23 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 4

Bt Warner Thanful for the Tribe when they pkayed at this place called The Jake.
22 minutes ago · Like · 1

Scott Davis Vinnie Pestano, Chris Perez, and Jason Kipnis
21 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Mikal Kobilis I am thankful for Dan Gilbert and jimmy Haslam
21 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Sam Ameen Terry Francona! But it really doesn't matter when our payroll is $25 million
20 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Chris Dinkins I'm thankful that the tribe might finally be for sale!!!
20 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Suga Shane I'm thankful for first my family and friends and I'm also thankful that all the owners of any other cleveland sport franchises aren't as cheap and stupid as the dolan group. Thank you happy holidays and God Bless
18 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Spencer Byers I second this guy ^^^
18 minutes ago · Like

Toby Julian i am thankfull i live close enough to see the indians and most of there up and coming talent
18 minutes ago · Like

Toby Julian i am also thankful everyday for my family
17 minutes ago · Like

Andy Piskula Sell the team!!!
16 minutes ago · Like

Suzey Hedrick thank ful for health and family, god bless you all. bring our troops home safe and sound
14 minutes ago · Like

Adam Ward Would be VERY THANKFUL, if you re sign Choo!!!
12 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Jon Stowe Dynasty
11 minutes ago via mobile · Like

Evan Martin For having a few months in the fall where I don't have to watch the Indians lose.
10 minutes ago · Like

Aaron Dotterweich I'll be thankful when you guys start spending some money to get some talent in Cleveland so we can be a winner again
9 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 1

Dale Balas That I don't have to watch this team again until April
7 minutes ago · Like

Marianne Lynn I'm thankfull that we get some NEW players for the season.... Let's WIN....
3 minutes ago · Like

Carl Storer Just remember, it could be worse, you could be a Chicago Cubs fan. They have'nt won a World Series since 1908. I live near Chicago and you talk about loyal fans, they are!
2 minutes ago via mobile · Like

civ ollilavad wrote:That's a pretty universally negative crop of reactions for the Indians to make available on their own page!

You'd think they would learn. Every time they ask fans a question, no matter what it is, the answers are like those!

New breed of managers getting results

Former big leaguers bring modern-day temperament, approach to leading players

By Lyle Spencer / MLB.com | 11/21/12 10:00 AM ET

Cardinals fans may know that Mike Matheny won almost as many Gold Gloves (four) as the five awarded Yadier Molina, the most-recent standard of excellence behind the plate.

Robin Ventura collected six Gold Gloves along with 294 homers and 1,182 RBIs in 16 seasons. Sabermetrics disciples can inform you the stylish third baseman notched an exceptional 52.3 career WAR (wins above replacement player).

Headlined by Matheny, Ventura, Don Mattingly and Kirk Gibson, the face of Major League managers is changing. It is getting younger, fresher. These are not your grandfather's grizzled, tantrum-throwing skippers answering to "The Little General" and "Battling Billy."

A trend is developing, with owners and front offices trusting dugout leadership and responsibility to former players of stature with limited -- in some cases zero -- managerial experience.

The latest to fit the profile is Walt Weiss, the Rockies' new skipper.

A contemporary of Matheny and Ventura, Weiss was the 1988 American League Rookie of the Year as the shortstop for Oakland's notorious "Bash Brothers." Weiss played in three World Series in his 14-year career with four clubs, celebrating in 1989 with his champion A's.

Weiss was the Rockies' shortstop from 1994-97, moving into a front-office role as a special assistant to general manager Dan O'Dowd from 2002-08.

"Anybody who ever played with Walt will tell you what a great teammate he was, what a great leader he was," said Angels GM Jerry Dipoto, the Rockies' 1997 closer. "We're both big [Bruce] Springsteen fans. When I'd get in a jam, he'd come to the mound and sing one of Bruce's songs to release some tension."

Weiss, Colorado hopes, was born to run a team.

The pride of Suffern, N.Y., he takes over the Rockies on the heels of a franchise-worst 98-loss season under Jim Tracy. Weiss spent 2012 coaching Regis Jesuit High School outside Denver to a 20-6 record and the semifinals of the Class 5A state championship.

This kind of jump never would have happened in the day when managers were groomed over decades in the Minor Leagues, where, in the vast majority of cases, they'd spent all or most of their playing careers.

John Gibbons, back for a second term with the Blue Jays and their newly designed potential powerhouse, is closer to the old school than the new breed of former stars. Gibbons, a catcher, played a total of 18 games for the 1984 and '86 Mets behind Hall of Famer Gary Carter.

The move to employing former stars on the top step of the dugout has been gradually coming, owing to the successes of the likes of Gil Hodges, Joe Torre, Lou Piniella, Dusty Baker, Jim Fregosi, Don Baylor, Felipe Alou and Davey Johnson.

Shattering the long-held myth that great players lack the patience to lead athletes with lesser skills and desire, these were, in effect, the trailblazers for the new breed.

It's not as if the old guard has been pushed aside. On the contrary, Johnson, the 2012 National League Manager of the Year at age 69, and runner-up Baker, 63, had stellar seasons.

The World Series brought together Bruce Bochy (57) and Jim Leyland (67), Bochy's Giants prevailing for the second time in three seasons to lift the former Padres skipper to the top of the profession.

While experience clearly matters, the new breed is breaking through and making an imprint.

Ventura was a stunning choice to succeed Ozzie Guillen with the 2012 White Sox. With no managerial background, Ventura ran third in the AL Manager of the Year balloting behind veterans Bob Melvin of the amazing A's and the Orioles' Buck Showalter.

Matheny settled into the seat long occupied by the legendary Tony La Russa in St. Louis and guided the Cardinals to another remarkable postseason run as a Wild Card, knocking off Atlanta in the one-game showdown to advance.

After an incredible ninth-inning Game 5 rally snatched the NL Division Series from Johnson and his Nationals in Washington, Matheny and Co. fell to the eventual champion Giants in the NL Championship Series.

La Russa was impressed with the work of his successor.

"He was a leader when he played," La Russa said during the postseason. "He's also a very tough competitor. He's also played [with] those guys. He was a Cardinal, a teammate. They know he's a man to be trusted and respected, which I keep saying is so important in leadership.

"He has very good coaches. And -- it helped me there -- the core of players is very deep, as far as guys willing to step up and say, 'Let's do it this way.' They're really vocal there. It's really a very good situation."

Responding to Matheny's touch, the Cards won 12 of their final 16 games to claim the 25th postseason trip in franchise history.

"I love the job," Matheny said. "I enjoy getting to invest in these guys, and then watching them turn and invest into each other. That's really the culture we have created, going out and having each other's back all the time."

In the NL West, combating the Giants, the Dodgers' Mattingly, the Diamondbacks' Gibson and the Padres' Bud Black -- frontline players from winning programs who arrived without managerial experience -- enhanced their reputations as leaders.

For years, the prototypical manager was a tough-minded bossman who'd paid dues working his way up the ladder. Earl Weaver, Gene Mauch, Sparky Anderson, Dick Williams, Whitey Herzog and Tommy Lasorda were among the Type A personalities fronting the previous generation of field commanders.

Billy Martin and Leo Durocher had experienced success as players, but they also fit the image of the hot-tempered boss imperiously running the show.

It was "my way or the highway." Now it's, "Let's sit down and talk about this." A kinder, gentler approach is taking hold in dealing with the modern player and his seven- or eight-figure guaranteed contract.

Even Gibson, as high-spirited a player as the game has seen, acquired a relatively calm demeanor in taking the reins in Arizona.

"What most people don't know about Kirk Gibson is how intelligent he is," said D-backs president and CEO Derrick Hall. "Everyone talks about how great he is, how competitive he is, but they don't realize just how intellectual and prepared he is. He's a strategist; he's a few steps ahead of most people."

A firebrand as a player, Gibson shows little ego as a manager. He remains an enforcer in terms of laying down rules and demanding attention to details such as fundamentals, but his athletes play with a sense of freedom.

Two of the best of recent vintage, Leyland and La Russa, fit the old mold of no-nonsense leaders with masterful motivational skills. Leyland was a Double-A catcher. La Russa, a Triple-A infielder for a decade, appeared in 132 games as a Major League player.

Along with Mike Redmond, the Marlins' new leader, Gibbons brings to 12 the number of former catchers in the current managing lodge, led by Leyland, Bochy, Melvin, Mike Scioscia, Joe Maddon and Joe Girardi.

"We've had truly great players who have been great managers," La Russa said. "I think of Torre, Don Baylor, Lou Piniella, guys like that. Dusty Baker. They would get a lot of instant credibility.

"But the great, great majority of coaching and managing is about earning respect. Jim [Leyland] is a special case. Even I was a better player than Jim was, and I was lousy. He was lousier.

"He didn't have any kind of background, but right away, when he came to coach [for La Russa's White Sox] in '82, he had already been managing for 11 or 12 years. His reputation as a baseball man was well known. That's what he had to do. He did it the right way. He earned it in the Minor Leagues."

From 1954-96, the Dodgers of Brooklyn and Los Angeles were managed by Walter Alston and Lasorda -- men whose combined Major League playing experience consisted of 15 at-bats [one by Alston] and 58 1/3 innings pitched [by Lasorda].

Mattingly, the Dodgers' seventh manager since Lasorda's retirement, was arguably the game's best player for a five-year stretch in the '80s. His players swear by him, and they'll need to take flight to keep him secure with a new management team carrying lofty expectations.

"He's been there," said center fielder Matt Kemp, who had a career year in Mattingly's 2011 debut season. "He knows all the struggles an athlete is going to go through. He wasn't just a regular; he was a star.

"Probably the most important thing for me [in 2011] was Donnie coming here. I'm still learning, and he meant a lot to me. He's always there for you with whatever you need."

In temperament and style, open and up front, Ventura is similar to Mattingly. They learned as players to strike a necessary emotional balance and not overreact to the good or hard times.

"Everything you see is what he is," White Sox slugger Adam Dunn said of Ventura. "The first time I met him, I thought, 'This guy's going to be awesome.' He never gets too high or too low. When it's over, it's over. He knows.

"He's not that far removed from being a player. He's in it with us. I mean, it's almost, I don't want to sound corny, but he's almost like it's too good to be true. He's unbelievable. For him to have the players' side down -- obviously, he's done it his whole life. Also he's got the fine line defined from being a manager and your buddy."

A late-season slide cost the White Sox the AL Central title but did little to diminish Ventura's reputation as a leader.

"Like they say in football, some guys have a nose for the football," the Tigers' Leyland said of his division rival. "Some guys have a nose for managing. I think he does. He really has done a terrific job."

Dunn takes Ventura's impact into the family realm.

"You know you're doing something right [as a manager] when the first thing you do [as a player] when you make a mistake is think, 'I let him down,'" Dunn said. "It's like a parent.

"All the so-called player managers are even-keel. You know what you're going to get each and every day. At the end of the day, it's over. Go get 'em."

I thought girls only used Facebook ? Yep, I was right.

rusty2 wrote:I thought girls only used Facebook ? Yep, I was right.

??? Most of the comments in my posts from there were from males.

http://www.kenburbary.com/2011/03/faceb ... tistics-2/

Comments sounded like females. Facebook is for lonely people.

The different methods to the Indians' madness

By Grant Brisbee on Nov 20, 8:30a

There have been three distinct waves of interesting Indians baseball teams over the past 20 years. The first one was when the Indians were a perennial playoff team from 1995 through 2001. We'll call this the Bartolo Colon Era. Maybe it's better to call it the Chad Ogea era, as he embodies the Indians' ability to get functional pitching without a whole lot of dominant pitching while they had the best offense on the planet. The Indians built the teams from this era with drafting, international scouting, and development.

The second wave wasn't as successful, but it was good enough for a couple of 90-win seasons and a trip to the ALCS. This would be the Grady Sizemore Era, from 2005 through 2008, when the Indians had several of baseball's best young players. They built this team similarly to the first wave, but in addition to the player-development successes like CC Sabathia and Victor Martinez, the second wave included a new weapon: the lopsided trade. The Bartolo Colon Era brought Sizemore and Cliff Lee in one swell foop. Add the Ryan Drese-for-Travis Hafner swap, and the Indians had a nice mix of homegrown and pilfered players.

The third era is almost certain to end this offseason. Heck, it probably crossed Ubaldo Jimenez in an airplane going the opposite direction. But this will be the final nail:

The Indians have let teams know they're willing to trade shortstop Asdrubal Cabrera and outfielder Shin-Soo Choo, but also that they're looking for "front-line pitching" in return.

The third wave was built almost entirely from ridiculously lopsided trades. Those two players are the best specific examples. Cabrera came in a trade from the Mariners in exchange for Eduardo Perez. Choo came from the Mariners in a separate trade for Ben Broussard. It wasn't just the Mariners who helped out, though, as the Indians also got Carlos Santana from the Dodgers for Casey Blake.

Those three players were the most enjoyable parts of the Indians' 2012 team, and they were all stolen. Michael Brantley and Justin Masterson came in the bigger deals that didn't really pan out (Sabathia and Victor Martinez, respectively).

And this last wave came with almost no homegrown help. The Indians' best homegrown player in 2012 was Jason Kipnis, and the 25-year-old hit .257/.335/.379 in his first full season. The second-best was Lonnie Chisenhall, who got all of 142 at-bats. The third-best, as far as I can tell, is between Josh Tomlin and Jeanmar Gomez, which is like something out of Fear Factor.

To simplify the above, here are a few ways to build a team, in order of preference.

1.Draft, develop, and acquire a group of future Hall of Famers and Hall of Nearly Greaters
2.Develop some good players and complement them with other good players stolen in lopsided trades
3.Steal a couple of players in lopsided trades

You probably knew that. It's not always practical to go out and get all the Hall of Famers and Hall of Nearly Greaters you can round up. That sort of thing takes a great farm system, but it also takes some good fortune. It kind of happens organically. You can't plan for it.

The second one is the template that almost every successful team uses. This is the standard.

The third one ain't nothing to count on.

This isn't a groundbreaking discovery, but rarely do you see it delineated so clearly as with the Indians and their three waves of interesting teams. And now the Indians are trying for those lopsided trades again, entertaining offers for two of their best players. They're hoping, like every team making a veteran-for-prospects deal, that they'll back into the next Sizemore/Lee/Brandon Phillips package.

In the meantime, they'll have to hope Kipnis gets even better, and Chisenhall becomes a good every-day player, and that Francisco Lindor develops as expected, so that they can use the pieces they get back for Cabrera and Choo to emulate the second wave more than the third. Player development is important? Well, yeah. That's not an original thought. But you don't have to look a lot further than the Indians to see just how important it really is. Teams cannot live on lopsided trades alone.

Tribe Happenings: The Indians' offseason begins NOW

By Jim Pete

November 25, 2012

Thanksgiving represents a beginning of sorts, as most of us get ready for the holiday season. While Thanksgiving day is a pause for most of us to eat about a hundred pounds of food, then sleep in front of a TV in a Triptophan-induced coma, Thursday Night begins the wonder known as the holidays.

Most will spend Friday, Saturday and Sunday spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on gifts and decorations that will end up in boxes, under beds, in closets and the attic by the time 2013 rolls around (NON-RELATED-OHIO-STATE-PLUG-WARNING! Some of us will even spend Saturday watching THE Ohio State Buckeyes roll the Michigan Wolverines in a yearly thrashing).

The joy of the holidays.

It warms you up inside, doesn't it? The Indians are doing the same. While many are frustrated that the Indians have only acquired a back-up shortstop and utility catcher so far, as well as their normal slew of non-roster invites, this weekend really is the start of a long process that Chris Antonetti and Terry Francona will use to re-image this team. Hopefully, the dominos will fall in the right order, and the presents won't get shelved by December 27th (right Grady Sizemore?). Let's find out what's HAPPENING!!!

It’s early yet, but the Indians’ offseason certainly feels familiar, doesn’t it? Chris Antonetti and the Indians front office certainly made waves to start their hot stove season with the hire of Terry Francona. It was the right move to make for the FO, and it was a great way (on paper) to show the ownership that they still had clout, and it was equally important (on paper) to display a new direction to potential free agents that the Indians were serious about winning. Francona was arguably the best manager available, and the Indians got him. Congratulations, the Indians got it right.

In the nearly two months since the Francona hire, the Indians have continued to make some minor moves to improve the team, anchored by the Esmil Rogers for Mike Aviles and Yan Gomes trade earlier in the month. Prior to that, right-handed reliever Blake Wood was claimed off of waivers from the Kansas City Royals. They also have signed infielders Nate Spears and Luis Hernandez and outfielders Matt Carson and Cedric Hunter to minor league deals, and also re-signed former top prospect Hector Rondon.

Mike Aviles is the one player mentioned above that has a legit chance at starting for an extended period of time, but the reality of his situation is that he shouldn’t. He’s the perfect supplement on the bench to a successful infield, and that’s the role that he’ll play going forward. We’ve discussed, at length, why he could start, so we’ll have to see if Aviles is part of a bigger plan, and if he is, will the Indians be able to execute that plan.

Blake Wood is another intriguing player in that he fits the mold of a typical Indians’ sign. He’s got upper-90’s potential, but he’s coming off of Tommy John surgery. The Royals tried to sneak him through waivers, but the Tribe was more than willing to take a chance on the arbitration-eligible reliever.

The rest of the players mentioned are minor league fodder really. This isn’t a knock to them, but if Gomes, Spears, Hernandez, Carson, Rondon or Hunter play significant time with the Tribe in 2013, then the Indians will truly be in some trouble.

The Indians also altered their 40-man rosters this past week as we head towards the Rule 5 draft in Nashville on December 6th. The Rule 5 caps off the winter meetings, that take place from December 3rd through the 6th, but I’ll get more into that in a second.

The Indians purchased the contracts of outfielder Tim Fedroff and pitchers Chen Lee, Trey Haley and T.J. House, outrighted Matt LaPorta and Brent Lillibridge to Columbus, and designated Fabio for assignment.

There weren’t really any surprises there. Fedroff deserved to be rostered, and is an intriguing option going forward. He couldn’t have been worse than what was put out there in left field in 2012, and I think really could become an interesting piece to the right major league team.

Lee and Haley both could find their way to the Tribe pen in 2013, although 2014 is their likely full-time destination year, as is House. Lee and Haley should be major contributors down the road, and House is a wildcard that could show more progression with his new approach, but unless someone enters the Cody Allen zone, it’s likely we won’t be talking about any significant time for any in 2013, unless the Indians are really struggling with healthy.

It’s important to keep in mind that rarely does anyone in any sort of long-distance race or competition actually win the race based only on the start. What’s to come in the next month will represent the first quarter of the race to next year’s postseason.

Of course, we really have to define what the Indians are racing towards, and who they are racing against before we can decide if they are successful.

The Indians aren’t in a “rebuilding mode” heading into 2013, but there are layers of rebuilding that goes on every year. Seriously, if the Indians are trying to rebuild off of the laughable 2012 seasons, then the front office should be fired be taken to task. With that said, the Indians aren’t starting from scratch, and they realize that. They have anchor players such as Carlos Santana, Jason Kipnis, Michael Brantley and Vinnie Pestano, and tradable commodities in Shin-Soo Choo, Chris Perez and Asdrubal Cabrera.

They should also have cash before and after any trades go down, meaning that the team could look very different in 2013, but still have a legitimate shot at winning some baseball games. Reality dictates that they likely won’t be winning enough to get into the playoffs, but that truly has more to do with what other teams are doing, although what the Indians can’t do will help magnify that.

So what race is Chris Antonetti, Mark Shapiro and Terry Francona running in? It’s a realistic one, to be quite honest, and it’s stark reality that the Indians are dealing with on a day-to-day basis. While I can’t stand excuses, think about what they are dealing with. The Dolans aren’t going to overspend, that’s just a fact. The Cleveland Market isn’t a good one for baseball to begin with, and fans don’t show up to help supplement any possible moves. Players don’t want to come here when they can sign with teams that can win, and win soon. The Indians can’t afford to take on half a team, as the Blue Jays did when the Marlins traded them everyone. There’s more to it than that, but it does appear to be a steep, uphill race for any management group.

Can it be done? Sure it can, but it certainly isn’t an easy path, and it gets harder day by day. You can certainly argue that Chris Antonetti may not be the guy to lead the Indians through these murky-at-best times in which baseball continues to tilt the playing field away from small-market teams, but the road is going to be difficult for anyone.

Impossible? Certainly not, but with big market franchises now hiring the same brilliant minds that could usurp the system at the start of the decade (most of those guys got their start in the Indians organization, by the way), it’s nearly impossible for the small market teams to compete for longer than a year or two.

Sure, the A’s won this past year, but Billy Beane lives and dies by calculated, baseball metric gambles from year-to-year. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don’t, but the major difference is that he’s willing to take the chance.

While several folks here (including myself) have stated that their approach is the best way for the Indians to delve into this cess-pool of ridiculousness set up by baseball’s big market teams, it’s also not an easy approach. The A’s rarely keep their good players for very long, using them to continually rebuild, and if they miss on a couple of deals, they don’t win. Granted, their losing seasons are nothing like the Indians, but they do go through stretches of struggle.

The fact that a team like the A’s is a standard bearer for the Indians really spotlights the bigger picture issues that the Indians deal with, but that’s for another article, and another day.

If you were to ask Billy Beane if he rebuilds, he’d likely say either “No,” or “Every Year.” You see, rebuilding doesn’t mean what it used to, because teams like the A’s and Indians have to continually utilize players with control (as the A’s did with Gio Gonzalez last year) to bring in players with more control.

What does that mean? The big market teams have created a market in which they can sign all the free agents because they can overspend on them, and they now can essentially bid on players who are about to enter arbitration on small market teams, because THOSE contracts are getting too big, and those players (with multiple years of control) are the only ones that will yield multiple (at best) prospects. Of course, big market teams don’t mind giving up those prospects anymore, because they get seasoned in a small-market, and in three years, end up back in a big market when that small market tries to continue their winning cycle.

Hell, it’s even hard to explain, let alone navigate through.

On top of that, you have owners like Jeffrey Loria, who continues to erode the owner/player relationship for a team like the Indians when he goes out and signs a multitude of free agents under the guise of building a winner, then promptly trades them all away. No, owners aren’t new to this type of behavior. It’s been around since there have been baseball teams. But, in this hypersensitive day and age in which players are looking for the quickest way to win, who would ever buy a Dolan promise to put a winner on the field (of course, they would never spend the money that Loria did, which compounds the problem for free agent signings to begin with).

On top of that, Mark Shapiro had an in-depth discussion with Fox Sports Ohio’s Pat McManamon about how the Indians utilize advanced metrics, and how they view the use of WAR (wins against replacement) with regards to free agent players:


Shapiro: Our analysts can put a value on what it costs in free agency to sign a player and what that means in Wins Above Replacement and what those players end up costing in free agency and that changes every year. They measure all the players signed in free agency and what their history has been and what they offer going forward and they place a value. The challenge in free agency is you're often paying for that in the first year of a contract, and in the out years of a contract the players WAR usually goes down because he's usually past his prime. So it becomes a less efficient contract over time. That's why free agency is never the best way to build. It's a good way to supplement but not build.

McManamon: So $8 million for one win?

Shapiro: It's $9 (million) now. It was $8 (million) two years ago. I think at the end of this year they figured out it was nine. And when those wins come in the win curve are important. What does that win mean if it's the difference between 80 and 81? Very little. But if that win's the difference between 89 and 90, that could be a meaningful win.


Small market teams live and die by metrics, and while old-school purists like myself hate it, it’s a nature of the beast. The big market teams have now meshed that old-school mentality with the new school metrics. They overspend for the RBI and homers, for the wins and the strikeouts, than outmaneuver teams like the Indians for the players that have those advanced metric numbers. It’s the same mentality that John Hart really created in the 90’s. He was a smart guy, but a self-proclaimed old school guy. He brought in a front office that was really second-to-none, but it was a different era, and one in which the Indians could actually spend with some of the big-market teams. Once they lost that leverage, the substance of the old-school methodology went out the window simply because they can’t afford it. Home Runs, RBI, Runs, Wins, Saves and Strikeouts cost a boatload of money, and the Indians just don’t have it. The Indians would have more of it with a guy like Mark Cuban at the helm, but baseball would constrict him as well. I disagree with Tony Lastoria to a degree in that I believe in time, a billionaire owner would alter the spending culture, but I do agree with Tony in that it’s likely not enough to create a halo of wonder that brings in the best and the brightest.

So where does that leave the Indians, on November 25th, 2012, Chris Antonetti faces another crucial offseason? The same place we were, this time last year. The Indians had made some ancillary moves, such as trading for Derek Lowe and signing Grady Sizemore, and were ready to move on some moves of more substance. Ultimately, they weren’t able to bring in the left fielder they wanted (they tried), nor bolster their rotation (not so much).

It’s important to keep in mind that we are still over a week away from the winter meetings, which is the traditional lynch pin to the majority of the offseason signings, and more important to the Tribe, the offseason trading, which the Indians are absolutely dependent on to alter the face of this franchise.

Will the Indians sign a free agent? I believe that they will, although it’s hard to say who, or when, especially when you take into account what Shapiro said in that interview. I really believe that the trade market will set their free agency.

Take into account what would happen if they do make a trade or two or three, and if it’s the players that have been rumored:

•If they trade Shin-Soo Choo, they will save somewhere between $6 and $8 million dollars (assuming that Choo gets close to $8 million in arbitration, and assuming that the players the Indians get in return make some sorta cash).

•If they trade Chris Perez, they will save somewhere between $6 and $7 ½ million dollars, and $12-$15 million in congruence with Choo.

•If they trade Asdrubal Cabrera, they’ll save $5 ½ to $6 ½ million dollars in 2013, and $10 million in 2014.

If you take into account the fact that Hafner and his $13 million are gone, and the fact that Grady Sizemore and his $5 million are gone, and you begin to see that the Indians COULD have some money to play with. No, it’s not the $40 million that it looks like, as arbitration and salary increases will created a dent in that, as will contract payouts, but it does give the Indians some flexibility to make some moves.

The key is not only making trades, but getting a return on them.

Now, there’s a lot of speculation as to who and what the Indians will trade for, and it’s fairly simple: Young Starting pitchers. Some folks predict that each player mentioned above will net two major league quality starters each. That’s ludicrous. The expectations should be one, and not necessarily top 100, MLB prospects either.

Asdrubal Cabrera may be the exception, but if Perez and Choo net one starter each, that’s a win. Anything more than that is icing on the cake. With moves made, then the Indians can put some money into free agency.

Of course, we know that the dominos rarely fall that way, so it will be interesting to see how the next two weeks play out.

I didn’t talk about the draft, as that plays a part in the make-up of a team, but that’s really not the direction that I wanted to go in. Just to say I covered it in this piece, I will reiterate what we all know: The drafting during the bulk of the 2000’s wasn’t very good, and that has created a hole of massive proportions.

It looks like the drafts of the past three years have improved. We shall see how that transcends this team over the next three seasons. It could be a game changer.

Melky Cabrera and Jonny Gomes, two players that we’ve talked about signing several times over the past two months, have signed elsewhere. Here lies the problem for the Indians. There’s no doubt in my mind that the Indians were players for at least Cabrera, and likely Gomes as well. They just can’t compete on several levels.

The Blue Jays signed Cabrera to a two-year, $16 million dollar deal that was finalized before thanksgiving. Should the Indians have offered the same deal? Should the Indians have made it a three-year deal at $24 million?

The Boston Red Sox signed Jonny Gomes to a two-year, $10 million dollar deal that was finalized after Thanksgiving. Should the Indians have offered the same deal? Should the Indians have made it a three-year deal at $15 million?

If they had, would Cabrera or Gomes have signed with the Indians anyways?

Did the Indians make offers to both?

Melky Cabrera was a guy that I wanted on this team, but to say that there were questions would be an understatement. He signed with the Jays, who just acquired 40 players from the Marlins, and signed for a bunch of money (more than I thought he would get). I’m a proponent of overspending for the right guy, but there’s just no way I’d over $8 million for two years, let alone three. It’s a gamble, but a big one for the Tribe. There’s a part of me that thinks the Indians made an offer to Cabrera, and that it was substantial. Just a gut call.

I also have to believe they were in on Gomes as well. Gomes is extremely respected, and had a fantastic season for the A’s last year (hello Billy Beane). They signed him for a cool million in 2012, and got massive returns for that small amount of money (his WAR as 1.6, so you can see that he was a massive value according to advanced metrics and based on the million). But, was Gomes worth a two-year deal at $5 million?

According to WAR…no…unless he continues to replicate last season’s numbers. His career WAR in 10 seasons is 2.3, and last season’s was 1.6…so you figure it out. He also only played in 99 games, so it’s not like we are talking a full-time guy here. He’s only had one season with more than 117 games…so I’m not bullish on Gomes.

The hope is that the Indians are making offers, and letting free agents know that they are building something with Francona. Then, if the right dominos fall in the right order, the Indians can “rebuild” and “contend” at the same time.

It sure isn’t going to be easy though.

Brent Lillibridge has elected free agency.
Lillibridge was outrighted off the Indians' 40-man roster and refused a minor league assignment. Coming off a disappointing 2012, he could struggle to find a guaranteed contract this offseason.


Nov 25 - 6:06 PM