Baron wrote:Vena Cava Da Vida Baby......

I had some parties in my college apartment where that closely named baby was cranked to the rafters, so to speak. There was a good looking girl from Parma who would have a drink or two and then lip sync and move in a way that it was impossible not to watch.

Memories.

I hope your personal timeline is still progressing well, Baron.

Tribe Fan in SC/Cali wrote:

Baron wrote:Vena Cava Da Vida Baby......

I had some parties in my college apartment where that closely named baby was cranked to the rafters, so to speak. There was a good looking girl from Parma who would have a drink or two and then lip sync and move in a way that it was impossible not to watch.

Memories.

I hope your personal timeline is still progressing well, Baron.

Meh, I'm doing alright. Time is going slow, yet fast.

I give Rusty credit for finally putting some personal opinion into his defense of Mark Shapiro and Chris Antonetti.

Although I''ll note I was confused several days ago when I referenced Rusty being a Shapiro supporter or similar, and Rusty typed something like "show me one post of mine where I have said I supported."

Why are you confused ? You still have not come up with a post yet. Just because I realize that Shapiro would be hired in a heart beat by another MLB team does not mean I support him. You seem to always forget that Shapiro was the MLB Executive of the year in 2005 and 2007 and has personally hired at least 5 current GM's and worked for at least 2 others.

rusty2 wrote:I give Rusty credit for finally putting some personal opinion into his defense of Mark Shapiro and Chris Antonetti.

Although I''ll note I was confused several days ago when I referenced Rusty being a Shapiro supporter or similar, and Rusty typed something like "show me one post of mine where I have said I supported."

Why are you confused ? You still have not come up with a post yet. Just because I realize that Shapiro would be hired in a heart beat by another MLB team does not mean I support him. You seem to always forget that Shapiro was the MLB Executive of the year in 2005 and 2007 and has personally hired at least 5 current GM's and worked for at least 2 others.

Well, do you support him....or not?

I don't.

I see no reason to keep him on for a 23rd season, at least as any more than a door greeter until he gets his 25 year watch. I am a pragmatic humanitarian.

I do not feel that Mark Shapiro has any potential, along with his Chris Antonetti, to improve this club from this point on any more than YOU likely could and would.

Rusty, I'd give the job to you in a heart beat. Or to anyone regularly posting here....over Mark Shapiro.

Mark Shapiro and Chris Antonetti are ineffective enigmas occupying prime sports fan management real estate.

You seem to always forget that Shapiro was the MLB Executive of the year in 2005 and 2007 and has personally hired at least 5 current GM's and worked for at least 2 others.

I haven't followed those awards too closely, but I do remember something about Detroit being awarded an "Organization of The Year Award" long ago on the eve of a multi year tank in the history of this board.

I have a theory those baseball guys who get to those jobs are a little fraternity working to protect each other and preserve for all their own good.

Let's say Dolan has a moment of clarity and fires everybody in sight from Shapiro, Antonetti, Acta, the director of scouting, the head of minor league development....etc.

Who hires the replacements?

Paul Dolan?....are you kidding?

I still feel that Hagadone not being paid probably had a deleterious effect on the psychology of the team. Whatever Nick did probably did not warrant taking bread from his mouth.

Unless, of course, he broke the hand on the managers or coaches chin.

Many players have done worse and people have looked the other way.

Iam not entering this "fray" as I have not read all the posts surrounding it due to blocking. But from the partials I have seen it is obvious that some people never change and will do anything to preserve their views.

Sad.

I tend to agree with Seagull, kick them all out,hire temps, or sell the team and let someone else do it.

Another thought.

Normally when a team goes into a tailspin some players usually step up, talk and cajole the team, possibly even yell and dent a few lockers, or so I imagine. It happened in my non-professional baseball experience.

But the Hagadone incident may have put a stop to that behavior, they may have dialed back, shut up and say I'll just play the season out and protect my family. Might even give some visions of leaving.

I have a theory those baseball guys who get to those jobs are a little fraternity working to protect each other and preserve for all their own good.

NO!-- ... Ya Think? I am shocked. Shocked!

I am not entering this "fray" as I have not read all the posts surrounding it due to blocking. But from the partials I have seen it is obvious that some people never change and will do anything to preserve their views.

Wow. You mean like someone that talks about the Hagadone situation as a turning point even though the Indians actually ended up paying Hagadone.

Talk about never changing and do anything to preserve their views.

seagull wrote:Let's say Dolan has a moment of clarity and fires everybody in sight from Shapiro, Antonetti, Acta, the director of scouting, the head of minor league development....etc.

Who hires the replacements?

Paul Dolan?....are you kidding?

I hear Mike Holmgren might be looking for a job before long.

I wonder if his agent Lamonte has any baseball people under contract? Hmmmmm.....

If the Hagadone situation meant anything don't you think your Whiner King Chris Perez would mention it ?

It looks like I screwed up the meaning of belie. At least I am man enough to admit it. What I dont understand about Rusty is his need to go to extraordinary lengths to protect the brain trust and the ownership group. It does seem like there is an agenda at work.

I haven't been paying much attention to this train wreck of a franchise lately. I'm too busy to concern myself with an organization that doesn't seem to care. But I do check in from time to time to maintain a historical perspective of the team I once cared about, and could care about some day if they ever got their act together.

From what I can see Dolan, Shapiro and Antonelli quit on this team before they ever broke spring training. The roster has been deficient from day one, and between paying out good money to guys who never saw the field (Sizemore), and guys who have no business still being in uniform (Damon), it was apparent that the ownership and front office either didn't care or they are incompetent.

But then the team goes out and over-performs for awhile and everyone gets excited, thinking that maybe they could make some noise this season if only they could acquire a few more pieces to help them over the hump and through the dog days/potential playoff run. And everyone was waiting for the trade deadline to come around and see what strategic moves would be made to accomplish this.

What happened? Absolutely nothing. Now if anyone cares to make an argument that the owner and front office did not quit on the season before they even broke spring training, I might listen. But there's no way anyone can say that they didn't quit on the team, the fans and on the season when they sat on their hands at the mid-season mark.

Dolan, Shapiro and Antonelli quit, and then when Acta saw them quit, he quit too. Then it trickled on down to the players and we have what we're witnessing, another epic collapse.

Make no mistake, this starts from the top and any responsibility and blame rests squarely on the shoulders of Dolan, Shapiro and Antonelli.

Now they can fire Acta and make him a scapegoat, and be justified in doing so because no manager should ever quit on a season the way Acta did no matter how uncaring or inept his front office is. But I don't see how that changes anything as long as the ownership and front office are unable or unwilling to do their part to field a team of competent, able players at all positions along with a little bench depth.

As far as the players go baseball is a sport where the collective and individual psyche matters a great deal. The Cleveland ownership doesn't seem to know this or care, and they torpedo the morale of the team time and time again with their lack of trying to correct obvious and blatant deficiencies in the roster.

And don't even get me started on the poor scouting and talent development, that's another whole can of worms where this organization has been failing from the top for years.

Well one can see how the very intelligent decision to fire Radinsky certainly helped us.