Cleveland Sports Forum

Looking at my Baseball America 2020 prospect guide I find Ernie #21 on the Cleveland list They like his ability to make contact and his defensive versatility he's played some CF and 2nd and short Arm probably good enough for short his lack of power snd rare walks don't bother them do much Listed a spot ahead of Chang

civ - I'm partial to Clement since he's a local (along with White Sox kid Danny Mendick) and he's actually quite similar to Mendick from what it seems.

These both might project in MLB to a guy like Tommy La Stella or David Fletcher (Angels) who Joe Maddon loves. Just solid defensively - multiple positions - and have good contact at bats.

Yeah, I know I have a thing against college 2nd basemen from a long history of guys like Cord Phelps and Scott Pratt who have flopped at the top of the minors. But Terry Francona likes Clement and although that reflects his love of Michael Martinez, Terry does know something about baseball that I don't. And BA rates him higher than mlb.com and I respect BA. And then if TFIR likes him, too, that makes the decision easy: I concede and look for Ernie to be our opening day 2nd baseman or Center Fielder.

Lol, I wouldn't go that far.

Just remember this is an offseason like no other. So although we see the Tribe dropping guys with $$ on their contracts like crazy, remember almost every other team is doing the same.

This offseason market is absolutely saturated.

To me, the Tribe's (and many other teams) strategy is easy to see. You drop those old school contracts (Santana, Hand) that were before the pandemic flooded the market.

Then, you get replacements from the saturated field at a discount. Sort of like we grabbed Cesar Hernandez last offseason, I expect us to find a veteran like him this offseason. Maybe him even - back discounted.

In the past, if you were going cheap, you used kids. Not necessarily anymore - this offseason has bargains galore.

PS - because of the glut - I don't expect this market to move quickly at all.

I'm sure you are right about the glacial pace of signings, until the market prices have been established why would anyone sign a bargain basement contract?
Plus no one knows yet what kind of a season 2021 will be. Seems possible that they may play 162 games with some fans for part of the season.

MLB’s reorganization of the minor leagues means that in 2021, there will no longer be short-season leagues in affiliated baseball. There will be games played at the MLB teams’ complexes in Arizona and Florida, but otherwise, the minors will only consist of full-season baseball, whether that means 120, 130 or 140 games. [good bye New York Penn League, Appy League and some others out west]

That will be a massive change after more than 50 years of short-season baseball, but it is worth noting that short-season affiliated professional leagues are still a relatively new invention in the 150-year run of minor league baseball.

And the creation of short-season leagues had a lot to do with external factors far from baseball in addition to some structural changes to the game that came together in the mid-1960s.

From the start of professional minor league baseball in the 1870s until the late 1950s, every minor league played full-season baseball. What a league called a full season differed from region to region, largely because of the weather. The season’s start date would be in April or May (cold-weather leagues started later) and the season would end in August or September.

In 1956 the Class D Nebraska State League changed that by founding a league that played a 63-game season from July 1 to Sept. 3. The Appalachian League followed suit a year later with a 70-game season.

The Nebraska State League folded after the 1959 season and for a few years, the Appalachian League was the sole short-season league in professional baseball. If the Appy League had remained the lone short-season league it would have been an interesting novelty and likely nothing else.

But as the U.S. involvement in Vietnam grew, the number of young men selected in the draft each year began to grow significantly. In 1962, the selective service inducted 82,060 young men into the armed forces. By 1965, that number had grown to 230,991 and by 1966 it climbed to 382,210.

At the time, any draft-eligible male could temporarily defer military service by being enrolled in college. MLB teams found that they were having trouble signing amateur players, as opting to leave school (or forgo college) brought with it the risk of being drafted.

As the Encyclopedia of Minor League Baseball explained, MLB teams began to encourage minor league players to head to or remain in college and then play pro ball in the summer between semesters.

To do that, MLB needed leagues set up to cater to these players who needed to play a shorter season. The Pioneer League went from playing full-season baseball to a 66-game June through August season in 1964. The first Florida complex leagues (the Cocoa Rookie and Sarasota Rookie) leagues sprung up the same year. Those two leagues merged into the Florida Rookie League in 1965. In 1966 they took on the Gulf Coast League moniker that is used to this day.

The Northern League shifted from full-season to short-season in 1965 and the Northwest League followed in 1966. The New York-Penn League was the last to switch over in 1967.

The arrival of the MLB draft in 1965 also played into these shifts as a June draft helped provide a steady stream of players to fill leagues that began in June.

By the 1970s, short-season ball had become an entrenched part of the pro baseball landscape. But it’s origins came about in part because of factors far from the baseball field.

Indians NEVER had the top prospect in the NYPL. Our high school and Latin kids often bypass this level; and the best college pitchers sometimes go right to Lake County so most of our best prospects spend little time here [Sabathia and Bieber each pitched fewer than games. Some of the best who spent full or nearly full season with the Scrappers: Victor Martinez, Roberto Perez, Jason Kipnis, Gio Urshela, Cody Allen,

Year Player Pos Team Org PA/IP WAR
1982 John Elway OF Oneonta Yankees — —
1983 Stan Jefferson OF Little Falls Mets 920 -0.5
1984 Jay Buhner OF Watertown Pirates 5,927 22.3
1985 Bobby Thigpen RHP Niagara Falls White Sox 569 9.9
1986 Luis Alicea 2B Erie Cardinals 4,614 9.6
1987 Alex Sanchez RHP St. Catharines Blue Jays 12 -0.4
1988 Marquis Grissom OF Jamestown Expos 8,959 26.4
1989 Sherman Obando OF Oneonta Yankees 394 -0.8
Year Player Pos Team Org PA/IP WAR
1990 Robert Eenhoorn SS Oneonta Yankees 74 0.0
1991 Frankie Rodriguez SS Elmira Red Sox 654 1.0
1992 Mike Gulan 3B Hamilton Cardinals 18 -0.3
1993 Ruben Rivera OF Oneonta Yankees 1,818 4.9
1994 Jay Payton OF Pittsfield Mets 4,490 12.0
1995 Chad Hermansen SS Erie Pirates 541 -2.5
1996 Aramis Ramirez 3B Erie Pirates 8,986 38.4
1997 Matt White RHP Hudson Valley Rays 10 -0.8
1998 Carlos Duncan 3B Batavia Phillies — —
1999 Alex Graman LHP Staten Island Yankees 6 -0.7
Year Player Pos Team Org PA/IP WAR
2000 Wilson Betemit SS Jamestown Braves 2,335 3.0
2001 John Van Benschoten RHP Williamsport Pirates 90 -3.3
2002 Hanley Ramirez SS Lowell Red Sox 7,127 41.5
2003 Nick Markakis OF Aberdeen Orioles 9,218 29.5
2004 Ambiorix Concepcion OF Brooklyn Mets — —
2005 Nolan Reimold OF Aberdeen Orioles 1,556 1.6
2006 Jeremy Hellickson RHP Hudson Valley Rays 1,269 15.4
2007 Brett Cecil LHP Auburn Blue Jays 756 6.6
2008 Jason Castro C Tri-City Astros 3,067 15.0
2009 Ryan Westmoreland OF Lowell Red Sox — —
Year Player Pos Team Org PA/IP WAR
2010 Carlos Perez C Auburn Blue Jays 670 -0.5
2011 Mason Williams OF Staten Island Yankees 234 0.0
2012 Taylor Guerrieri RHP Hudson Valley Rays 36 -0.2
2013 Harold Ramirez OF Jamestown Pirates 454 0.3
2014 Marcos Molina RHP Brooklyn Mets — —
2015 Andrew Benintendi OF Lowell Red Sox 2,104 8.5
2016 A.J. Puk LHP Vermont Athletics 11 0.3
2017 Brendan McKay LHP/1B Hudson Valley Rays 49 0.0
2018 Gilberto Celestino OF Tri-City Astros — —
2019 Adley Rutschman C Aberdeen Orioles — —

Major League Baseball’s talks with Minor League Baseball over the structure and economics of the minors for 2021 and beyond have reached their final stages.

MLB has informed minor league teams they will be notified around the first week of December if they are part of the 120 full-season affiliated teams that will comprise the reorganized minor leagues. Soon after notification, MLB will issue Professional Development Licenses to those 120 clubs.

Those notifications will not mean discussions over the future of the minors have been completed, but it will mean that are nearing an end. MLB is expected to present Professional Development Licenses to each of the 120 minor league teams it selects. The minor league teams will then have to decide whether to sign them.

MLB will be presenting a contract—the Professional Development License—to individual owners. If an owner opts not to sign the PDL, MLB would likely move on to a team left out of the original 120 to fill the open slot.

The new dynamic will be nothing like previous Professional Baseball Agreement negotiations. In past PBA talks, MLB and MiLB have come to an agreement which was then been presented to owners on both sides for ratification.

The current discussions between MLB and MiLB’s negotiating committee could more accurately be described as feedback sessions. Minor league owners have been able to lay out objections and concerns about many of MLB’s proposed changes, and MLB has already modified its initial requirements about travel, scheduling, marketing and other aspects to some extent.

But the negotiations are not ending with the two sides reaching a mutual accord. They are wrapping up with one side planning to present offers to individual teams. Theoretically, there could be further negotiations between individual teams and MLB once those teams receive the licenses. A group of minor league teams could also band together to try to get changes to language in the license, but there is not going to be an agreed-upon contract that the two sides have worked out together.

At this point, the broad strokes of the structure of the minor league system are complete. MLB’s plan is to have 120 full-season minor league teams—a Triple-A, Double-A, high Class A and low class A affiliate for each of the 30 MLB clubs—in addition to Rookie-level clubs at MLB teams’ Arizona, Florida and Dominican complexes.

There will also be Partner Leagues. In addition to the agreements already reached with the previously independent American Association, Atlantic and Frontier Leagues, MLB is also planning to announce that the Pioneer League—one of the Rookie-level minor leagues set to be eliminated as an affiliated league under the new structure—will continue to play professional baseball as a Partner League. MLB is also having discussions with the Mexican League on becoming a Partner League.

MLB said these leagues provide opportunities for players that are not yet ready for affiliated ball, as well as second chances for players released from affiliated teams. They will also ensure baseball is present and marketed to communities not included among the 120 affiliated teams and will “provide a vehicle to give people with diverse backgrounds coaching and playing opportunities through formal MLB-sponsored programs.”

There will also be Draft Scouting Leagues, as Baseball America has previously reported. The Appalachian League has agreed to operate as a summer amateur wood-bat league for rising college freshmen and sophomores in conjunction with USA Baseball. Some New York-Penn League teams will be part of the MLB Draft League, a circuit operated in conjunction with Prep Baseball Report. That league will be designed for draft-eligible players to play and be scouted in advance of the July draft each year. There will also be a continuation of the Prospect Development Pipeline League—a developmental league for 80 of the top rising high school seniors in the country. It operated for the first time in 2019, but the 2020 PDP league was canceled due to the novel coronavirus pandemic.

MLB’s memo to minor league teams reiterated that it “fulfills MLB’s commitment to maintaining baseball in every community in which it is currently played.”

MLB has also laid out that it plans to have two Triple-A Leagues, one in the Eastern United States and one in the Western U.S., which is similar to the current format of the Pacific Coast League and International League. There will be three Double-A leagues, one in the Central U.S., another in the South and another in the Northeast. That hews very closely to the structure of the current Texas, Southern and Eastern Leagues.

There will be three high Class A leagues, one in the Mid-Atlantic, one in the Midwest and one in the Northwest. That is a significant change from the current system. Many of the teams that comprise the low Class A Midwest League are expected to move to high Class A. Teams from the short-season Northwest League are expected to be used as Northwest high Class A teams. And the Mid-Atlantic League is expected to be filled with teams from both the Northeast (Brooklyn and Hudson Valley have already been announced by their MLB clubs) as well as teams from the Carolinas that played in the South Atlantic and Carolina Leagues in the past.

At low Class A, there will be a league in California made up of teams that largely played in the high Class A California League, one in Florida filled with teams that had played in the high Class A Florida State League and one in the Southeast populated largely by teams that played in the low Class A South Atlantic and high Class A Carolina Leagues.

So it looks like our AAA team will remain in Columbus; our AA team will remain in Akron; our High A team could shift to Eastlake; our Low A team could shift to Lynchburg. Mahoning Valley might fit into on of those "draft prep" leagues. And the AZL team stays at Goodyear.

Is there going to be a class a high and class a low?

Yes; AAA AA High A Low A Rookie

It looks like the Big Day for Baseball America's annual Indians Farm System chat will be coming up later this week; they've moved to the AL Central and feature the Twins today. We'll get their Top 10 and projections for 2024 lineup etc.

With no minor league season this summer the Qs and As would be pretty much the same as last year's with the exception of the new guys ahead. BA was impressed with our draft this year and we got those 3 good talents from the Padres so the list will be altered some but mostly in the 11-30 range and that's not made public until the Prospect Handbook is published.

I don't know if they will have had an opportunity to scout the performance of the guys at the Alternate Site or Instructional month. Otherwise their guesses about player development cannot be much better than ours.

BA has scheduled the Indians chat for December 9. If you have any favorite minor leaguers you want their opinions on let me know. Most years the chat goes on for a couple hours and they run through dozens of names.
I'm curious about Rocchio who never made it out of Venezuela for the summer and I think for Instructional play either.
I always am hopeful that Johnnathan Rodriguez has some prospect although the summer off couldn't have helped.
And eager for any thoughts on the development if any that Valera and Bracho made in Eastlake. They both look like potential really good bats and one is actually an outfielder.
I'd like a comparison of 4 lefties who rank in our top 20 or 30 prospects, well make that 5: Hentges [reliever?] Logan Allen Sr. [used to be in the top 100 overall, now not on some Indians top 30s], Scott Moss [is he ahead of Allen now? major league starter?] Joey Cantillo and Logan Jr. this year's draft pick.

The MLB Draft League will be a 68-game, summer amateur wood bat league set to play in four former New York-Penn League locales—State College, Williamsport, Mahoning Valley and West Virginia—as well as Trenton, which was a member of the Double-A Eastern League. It is designed for draft-eligible players.

While high school players will be allowed to participate, the league is primarily designed for players who have just completed their junior and senior years of college baseball and are therefore draft eligible. Draft-eligible junior college players (who are eligible to be drafted after each year of college) would also be a potential target for the six-team league.

The league will begin play in late May and run until mid-August. The league is designed to offer draft-eligible players a chance to play in the leadup to the draft, which has been moved from its traditional early June date to an early July date that coincides with MLB’s All-Star weekend.

“Times change, our stances need to change with them," State College Spikes owner Chuck Greenberg said. This new concept as a baseball fan is one I believe is truly exceptional. From a baseball standpoint, it will be everything we have had with a greater concentration of talent.”

In conversations with multiple player agents, they said they expect few potential first-round picks will opt to play in a pre-draft league because the risk of a potential first-rounder harming one’s draft stock would be worse than the upside of improving their stock.

That won’t be much of a change for New York-Penn League teams. Of the 32 first-round picks who signed in 2018, only three played in the NYPL.

But the total amount of potential draftees that will play in the league could mean that Greenberg’s prediction comes true.

No one is barraging me with questions for the Baseball America chat tomorrow afternoon. I agree it's hard to remember who's in the farm system after a year's break, especially the longer shots who may be ready to break out.